Trinity and Monotheism

[Arthur Durnan]

Well spoken. I too accept wholeheartedly Jehovah's declaration re the Triune God, the Triunity in Unity. Because a truth may transcend one's fullest understanding doesn't mean that it contradicts that understanding. Bottom line: it surely beats, say, the Muslim "monotheism" which accepts the ancient - long before Muhammad ever came on the scene - Arabian Moon god, Allah with crescent a-fluttering, as its "one true god."

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com

[mike2]

The mormons always use that verse to justify more than one God. The fact of the matter is that Jesus Christ derives His power and authority from the Love of God. That is because the right signifies Love and Power, and the Father signifies Divine Love. Jesus Christ does in fact say that there is the Trinity and that there is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Only the Nicean council said that God is like people with three bodies. This is an error that persists in the Church because protestant doctrine copied Catholic doctrine. God is not like people, and if he were, only one mind would be in one body supporting the fact that Jesus Christ is with the Father and send forth the Holy Spirit just like a person's soul, body and what the person does is a triune that is not thought of as split into more than one.

Hey, bill.............buddy...........have you noticed that you are the ONLY one saying that God has 3 bodies?

I believe you are now arguing with yourself. Nite nite!

I've been skimming thru this thread looking for Just this right here

Bill I think you should go back and read thru what it is you wrote, that Fiosh is responding to, I believe your answer is in there.

God has given us bodies in which to DWELL, His temples.

Having said that, look at the population of the world and imagine God in all of us!!! 3 in 1 whoa!

I believe you can come to an understanding of this and I commend you for re-starting this thread in your pursuit, so many people may have given up, and God has chosen you to continue

Bless you

although I don't believe it applies here, Check out John 3:12 (the 'Message' says it best)

Most often God recquires us to think outside the box

mike2

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

bill, its fairly obvious to anyone following this discussion that all you have to fall back on are the canned quips that you are apparently copying from the pamphlets distributed by the cult you are a part of. You are so much like the poor 12 year olds the JW's send door to door to peddle their misguided message. Once you get them off their program, they are completely lost.

We can really only pray at this point that God will graciously lead you away from the millstone that is around your neck and to the Christ of the Bible.

I was raised in the JWcult and was one of those 12 yr olds at peoples doors and yes, this is like that! TO deny that JEsis is GOd is a serious thing! But, the way to help one who does not know true Bible teaching is to show them the scriptures that undeniably reveal JEsus as GOd in the flesh. (making a copy for them to read at home helps)

Also, with prayer before and after showing them, that the Holy SPirit may convict them.

I read the Bible, prayerfully, through and through (many translations)and came to the fact that JEsus is GOD, all that is of the Fathers is His, also the Father , so also the Holy SPIrit is God, but it is Christ who gave HIS body for our sins(and this swedenborg person denies that also)

If we are built/founded on another mans gospel, it is NOT ON CHRIST

One hard thing for people in cults is to realise they are in a cult, also to take an honest view of the history of that cult and then the Bible teachings as they are presented in the Bible against the teachings of some personal revelation cult leader.

But TRUTH is the vital point ,not being right in our selves but finding what is right! According ot the Bible.

Stephen called out to GOd saying;"LORD JESUS recieve my spirit". (so he spoke to JEsus when JEsus was in heaven directly) St.Thomas asked to see God and JEsus told him, so long and yet you do not know me? Henceforth you have both seen GOd.... ok it is VERY precise there.

BUt, there are so many scriptures for teaching this basic simple thing, Anything less is to deny the GOdship of JESus Christ and that will get us nowhere.

JWs say trinity is not in the Bible,too. BUt, they ignore that their fav coin "theoracy" is not in the Bible either.

It is not impossible to reach Jws or any other person who is took in by the cult mentality.

The authority here MUSt be the Bible!

Not what the wsedenb- or the org - or the CTRussel-or JSmith etc- or any other who rejects the scripture that says; scripture is not of private revelation!

I can type our several scriptures here that with prayer may help one to see . BUt, it is only by the Holy SPirit that one can say JESUS IS LORD! amen!

Praise The Lord!

We are created in Gods image. WHo is GOds image? THe Bible says JEsus is the express image of God. That is simple enough.

God is also Spirit, We true worshippers must worship HIm in SPirit and Truth.

What is truth?

Jesus says:I am the Truth, the Way and the Life.

So, JEsus Himself is The Truth. Not some collected teaching of any cult or otherwise person or persons. HE also says no one comes to the Fathjer except by me. that would mean that swedenborg is wrong to say we choose our own future or that JEsus did not die for our sins.

I would like to add for other CHristians to understand, as a child raised in a cult, the JW org, I was sincere and there were few who seriously tried to help me know the true Christ, Who is the God who reveals HImself. However I was dilligently praying and seeking, and there were those who did plant seeds and water and GOd helped me! Praise GOd! Blessings upon the feet of all those who carry the Gospel of Christ and reconcilliation to the world in Him!

I would ask you now to make every effort to prepare and teach and help and pray for anyone who does not know God , or who has become victim of a cult that teaches itself as authority.

Most cults have alot in common, as they will deny the main meat of the Bible, the Godship of the Christ Jesus Himself, HIs bodily ressurection, HIs death taking away all sin, Adams and ours if we are in Him, Him being uncreated(as John explains he belongs to the uncreated... all things that were created were created by HIm,therfore HE Himself is uncreated. They will also not want praise to JEsus, or simply say his name not speak ot HIm as use His name as a beginning and ending , never really speaking to HIm! We do speak to Christ! But Him and through HIm is to come to HIm, we have to really come to HIm.

BUt, a cult does not direct one ot the True Christ. NOr do they really ask you to ask HIm into your heart either! They become the authority, although JEsus said All authority is given me in heaven and earth.

ALso, cults teach that JEsus was not and is not equal to the Father, but the Bible says HE was equal and HE humbled HImself while on earth.

When we look at what constitutes a person in the Bible, we can see a person thinks,feels etc,so does God the Father, JEsus, the HOly SPirit and even satan is seen to think, feel etc. Jws say the HOly SPirit is not a person, but an energy, Try to grieve your gas oven! You can't ! But you can grieve the Holy SPirit! HE teaches and dicerns.

The scripture where it says the Christ is the firstborn of all creation, means preemminent, not created. It has to be taken out of context of the rest of the scripture in order to try to say that he is created being. HE is uncreated and HE is Creator.

I found all I needed in the Bible and all the lies I didn't bneed in mans teachings.

WHen we pray to GOd and say, I want all that is of You oh LOrd and nothing that is not of you! HE will answer that ! Once I asked JEsus into my heart to be my Lord ,My saviour, HE proved HImself God to me in unmistakeble faithfullness and every way possible.

I am overjoyed I can call to JEsus, as Stephen did, and not forbidden any longer!

Since arainiasm is one thing here being discussed, and it is, it would help to actually read the book reasoning with the scriptures with Jws. This book uses BIble alone to untwist the aranianism teachings and also untwists alot for anyone who has been in or dealt with JW teachings and also the araniasm we are discussing.

It would be a long list here to quote some undeniable scriptures that JESUS is GOd, that the Father SOn and Holy Spirit are One GOd. BUt a few may help.

I have a list I wrote out I could add here in awhile.

Wanted to say something here though firstly.

I will be back if this thread is still open , as I would like to add some scriptures that help.

AS we identify the Father as GOd JEsus as GOD, Holy SPIrit as GOd.

The Bible undeniably teaches this.

But, what we cannot say is we know ALL of GOds Mind, we know what HE has revealed to us,

He is far above any of His creations and therefore more than we can comprehend.

But we can know HIm and know HIm as HE has revealed himself as Father, SOn and Holy SPirit.

Hope to get back for adding scripture to speak not me.

anyone needing some info on the JW org to help save someone from them see http://www.freeminds.org

IF they come to your door, if you know even one, please make the effort, they are not as unaffected by what you say as the pretend!

hope to add scripture soon,

elkie

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

Just because one is unable to fully understand a doctrine, does not make it false.(do you fully understand GOd has no beginning (Psalm90:2,Rom.11:33,Isiah55:9,1Corin.13:12or fuly comprehend "time" no one can point ot a certainmoment as the beginning of time,we run our lives by it and we do not reject the idea of time simply because ther are aspects of it thtwe do not fully comprehend)

For humans to understand everything about God ,they would have to have the mind of God.

But, we can know Him as He has revealed HImself in the Bible,as Father, Christ JEsus and in the Holy Spirit.

All three EACH

have the atributes of God, besides being called God .

All three persons possess the attribute of omnipresence(everywhere present); the Father(1Kings8:27), the Son9Matthew38:20), and the Holt Spirit(Psalm139:7).

All three have the sttributes of omnipotence(all-powerful):the Father(psalm135:6),the Son(Matthew28:18)and the Holy Spirit(ROmans15:19)

Holiness is ascribed to each of the three persons:the Father(Rev.15:4),theSOn(Acts3:14),and the Holy SPirit(Rpmans1:4).

Eternity is ascribed to each of the three persons: the Father(Psalm90:2),the Son(Micah5:2; John1:2; rev.1:8,17)and the Holy Spirit(Hebrews9:14)

Each of the three persons is individually described as the truth; the Father(John7:28),the Son(revelation3:7), and the Holy SPirit (1John5:6).

Each of the three is called Lord(Luke2:11;Romans10:12;2Corinthians3:17) everlasting(Romans16:26;Hebrews9:14:REv22:13)almighty(Genesis17:1;Romans15:19;Re

elation1:8) and powerful(Jeremiah32:17;Zechariah4:6;Hebrews1:3).

Can we agree that the Father, SOn and Holy SPirit each exercise the attributes of diety on different occasions?

(please re-read the above given scriptures) Can anyone other than GOD have the attributes of GOD?(this point to the diety of JEsus and the Holy Spirit)

Look at the numerous scriptures that identify(directl yapply to JEsus same as Yahweh) JEsus is Yahweh and is eternally self-existant--co-equal with GOd the Father and GOd the Holy Spirit.

Christ was "I AM". He was before all things. LIke the Father and the Holy Spirit, HE is everlastingly the Living One.

see: Yahweh is our sanctifier(Exodus31:13),is omnipresent(PS.139:7-10)is our peace(Judg.6:24).is our righteousness(Jer.23:6), is our victory (Exodus17:8-16), and is our our healer(Exod.15:26) then so is Christ all of these things(1Corin.1:30; Col.1:27; Eph.2:14). If the gospel is GOd's(1thess.2:2.6-9;Gal.3:8), then that same gospel is also Christs(2thess3:2;Gal1:7). IF the church is also Christ'(Gal.2:13; 1 Cor.15:9), then that same church is also Christ's(Rom.16:16). God's kingdom(1Thess.2:12)is Christ'sEph.5:5); Gods love(Eph.1:3-5)is Christs(Rom.8:35): GOds WOrd(Col.1:25; 1Thess.2:13)is Christs(1Thess.1:8, 4:15); God'a Spirit(1Thess.4:8)is Christ's(Phil.1:19); God's peace(Gal.5:22; Phil.4:9) is Christs(Col3:15) Col.1:2;Phil.1:2;4:7);God's Dayof judgerment (Isa13:6)is Christs Day of judgement(Phil1:6,10;2:16; 1Cor.1:8); Gods grace (Eph.2:8,9; Col.1:6;, 10;2:16; 1Cor.1:8); God'agrace9ePH.2:8,9;cOL1:6; gAL.1:15) is Christ'sgrace(1Thess.5:28;Gal.1:6;6:18);and Gods salvation(Col.1:13)is Christ's salvation(1Thess.1:10); and God's will (Eph.1:11; 1Thess.4:3; Gal.1:4)is Christs will (Eph.5:17;1Thess.5:18).

So it is no surprise to hear Paul say that he os both God's slave (Rom.1:9) and Christ's(Rom.1:1;Gal.1:10), that he lives for that glory which is both GOd's (Rom.5:2; Gal.1:24) and Christ'a (2Cor.8:19. 23; 2Cor.4:60, and his faith is in GOd(1Thess.1:8,9; Rom.4:1-5)and in Christ Jrsus (Gal3:22),and that to know God, which is salvation(Gal.4:8; 1Thess.4:5), is to know Christ (2Cor.4:6).

Without quoting all the Bible here, may I also add some key points that helped me in teh Bible.

The Bible says Jesus is a son over his own house!

He is the express image of God seen in the beautiful and glorious face of Christ!

When we read in Rev. it is GOd speaking and HE says, I am He, the one who was dead and is living.... this IS JEsus talking and this is GOD talking.(see letters in red in any KJV also in Rev.)

A heartfelt asking of the Holy SPirit to teach and to reread all the NT would be a great help.

Keeping in mind, GOds way must become our way.

elkie

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

ALso think about John1.

PLease reread the book of John, prayerfully.

IT says the same was with God(as as with Christ) this points that they are both GOD.

GOd uncreated and Creator, JEsus(the Word) uncreated and Creator).

Yes, Jesus came to be called son of man, he was GOd in the flesh here on earth, humbled and resumed HIS rightful place coequal with God the Fahter when HE returned to heaven.

Immanuel=GOd with us!

JEsus said, ye search the scriptures because YE THINK in them ye might be saved, but they are written to WITNESS OF ME, yet you won't come to ME!

May you come fully to CHrist and the knowledge that HE is the true Living God.

GOd did not send another to do HSI worl, BUt HE came to reconcilliate those who are HIs to HImself!

GOd the Father, The SON and the Holy SPirit is ONE GOD!

amen,

elkie

[Guest AsiD_ReiGN@yahoo.com]

I have a hand. It has distinct characteristics, uses, and qualities that make it unique.

I have a head. It has distinct characteristics, uses, and qualities that make it unique.

I have a foot. It has distinct characteristics, uses, and qualities that make it unique.

I am my hand, my head, and my foot. I am one person.

-Justin-

[Joe@actsii]

I have a hand. It has distinct characteristics, uses, and qualities that make it unique.

I have a head. It has distinct characteristics, uses, and qualities that make it unique.

I have a foot. It has distinct characteristics, uses, and qualities that make it unique.

I am my hand, my head, and my foot. I am one person.

-Justin-

I think if you use that example, there would be five in the Trinity. Two hands, two feet and one head.

[elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid]

I appreciate all the work you have put in on your website,2nd to the point.

When I was a child, growing up in the Jws, I remember asking my mother why in Genesis, God is plural, let US create man in OUR image. By the time I was a preteen I saw with my Spiritual Heart and mind from the Holy Spirits prompting as St. Thomas said to Jesus, my Lord and my God.

It is true the Old T shows the paralell verses hundreds of time to the New T that there is the Father Son and Holy Spirit in plural -but is ONE GOD.

I remember when I got a KJV and saw Godhead for the first time! Wonderful GOD!

I do remeber having to learn and pray and seek and finding GOd as Who HE has revealed Himself through the Holy Bible and much study. I did not know automatically about the trinity, I had to learn. BUt I am convinced it is the truth and if anyone seeks for GOd with ALL his heart , he will find GOD.

I do hope folks, you will take the time and effort to find the true teachings of the Bible and of our GOd. We haveto take the time for GOD! Even Jesus words to baptise in the name of the Father ,Son and Holy Spirit, from the Lords own motuth, as it all the Bibl , too!

HE has revealed HImself and we should know HIm as HE has revealed HImself - because it is HIs way and it is WHO HE is.

Maybe, after looking up the scriptures and reading this link, too. We can have some more to say on this matter in view of the Holy GOd we want to know forever as Our God. Many teach Lord or God , But, it must be as JEsus taught and the Bible reveals to be the GOD of the Bible.

Take care all,

elkie

[SpiritualSon]

It is absurd to close a previous thread on the trinity because this will be argued about long after I am dead. The first church to declare three divine persons from eternity happened late in the Catholic Church at the Nicean Council. Before this, belief in multiple persons in the trinity was never written down or ever really thought of. This statement about God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit or three divine persons has been repeated so often that the other side of the argument can't be backed up by official church writings that pervade most of the Christian Churches.

Yet Jesus says believe in Jesus and in Jesus's name. Remeber, nobody except the polygamous false prophet Joseph Smith has ever said that he saw the Father in bodily form standing right next to the Son in bodily form. Are we to take his word? I think not. Also, God is infinite. Moses - denied to see God. Philip - denied to "see" the Father. Philip was told the Father was with Christ and Christ with the Father. So what is going on? A human being cannot see what is infinite and God is infinite. When we attribute a body to the Father we are basically saying God is not infinite. Swedenborg describes God as having two things that are alive - Love and Wisdom. The Father is infinite love, the Son is the visible truth, the Holy Spirit is the works of God going forth from that union. This is not more than one mind, this is not more than one personality and this is not more than one body. Remember the Jewish religion was monotheistic and the Jewish religion was given by God. I think monotheism and Christianity go hand in hand !

Well said.

Harry