Banning smoking in the car...

[Guest LadyC]

p.s., i'm going to have to ask everyone to respect the fact that i'm bowing out and please not try to BAIT me into further argument, as was done recently in another thread that ended up being locked down. i have a hard time not engaging when i'm baited. please resist the temptation to make me stumble.

[Guest LadyC]

sorry, my last post, only to provide the link i promised to provide in my previous post but forgot to do.

one of many research papers

[Catsmeow]

With all due respect, smoking is vastly different in that if I do it, the kids are still directly and definitely effected....as proven by years of research. Second hand smoke kills, plain and simple.

with all due respect fiosh, you're repeating hyped up media reports that exaggerate the actual studies on second hand smoke.

With all due respect....comon' folks!

VERMONT gives child rapist 60 days in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, now.....where's the outcry against child molestation?

Good grief, you talk about straining at a knat while swallowing the camel.

Parental neglect includes: allowing kids to play VIOLENT video games (i.e. Grand Theft Auto), play Dungeons and Dragons, (occult), and stuff themselves on Twinkies all day after school, and people are worried about parental smoking?

Many beat or sexually molest these sweet children and we're worried about SMOKING? Comon, folks....comon!

[Fiosh]

With all due respect, smoking is vastly different in that if I do it, the kids are still directly and definitely effected....as proven by years of research. Second hand smoke kills, plain and simple.

with all due respect fiosh, you're repeating hyped up media reports that exaggerate the actual studies on second hand smoke.

With all due respect....comon' folks!

VERMONT gives child rapist 60 days in jail!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay, now.....where's the outcry against child molestation?

Good grief, you talk about straining at a knat while swallowing the camel.

Parental neglect includes: allowing kids to play VIOLENT video games (i.e. Grand Theft Auto), play Dungeons and Dragons, (occult), and stuff themselves on Twinkies all day after school, and people are worried about parental smoking?

Many beat or sexually molest these sweet children and we're worried about SMOKING? Comon, folks....comon!

And I guess that's the point. We could go off in all sorts of directions on this one. I'm trying to address the smoking issue. That is not to say it is more or less serious than any other.

Parental rights would be it's own thread. As would personal freedom.

I'm simply talking about subjecting your kids to second hand smoke.

[Ovedya]

Okay, so.....wouldn't that be a children's rights issue, then?

What about spanking? What if they outlawed spanking?

[Catsmeow]

I agree. We need to pick our battles and there's bigger problems in society and more serious issues concerning children than smoking.

I don't smoke. Don't like smoking. I love the "smoker but hate the smoke"..(LOL) Okay, seriously, I may not be a smoker and dislike the odor but man, this is getting way, way into people's civil rights.

What if a person doesn't have kids? What about THEIR rights?

Not everybody who smokes happens to have children.

[Fiosh]

sorry, my last post, only to provide the link i promised to provide in my previous post but forgot to do.

one of many research papers

Ok, I looked it over. The bottom line is "effects of environmental tobacco smoke, particularly for CHD are considerably smaller than generally believed."

I'll give ya points for that.

A few observations:

1. This was a study of adults not children

2. It was done in California where the population is already exposed to one of the highest carcinogenic pollution levels in the country

3. It focused only on cancer and heart disease, not childhood illnesses.

4. It is ONE study

5. They admit receiving funds from the tobacco industry, but in fairness, make it clear that this did not effect the measures used

[Fiosh]

sorry, my last post, only to provide the link i promised to provide in my previous post but forgot to do.

one of many research papers

You are right. On the first page of the report, it clearly says the data is inconclusive. That is the problem with so many of these health warnings. They get everybody in an uproar about how dangerous something is without conclusive evidence. Then years later, after people alter their lifestyles, they change their mind. I will give you a couple of examples.

1. Saccarine- It was taken out of soft drinks, as they claimed it causes cancer. Then we come to find out the studies they were basing those findings on involved feeding lab rats this unbelievably high daily dosage of the sweetener. If you overdue it, nearly anything can be harmful or even lethal. I remember hearing of someone dying from being forced to drink too much water. Now we use a much more dangerous sweetener aspertame in soft drinks, which has been shown to cause brain damage in some.

2. Coffee- About every decade the studies are different. First it is harmful. Now it is a good antioxydent. How many people gave up their coffee out of fear of heart disease only to find out the studies were wrong or at least highly inconclusive.

I just don't believe the hype about second hand smoke. I do believe it could be somewhat harmful, but remember when they were telling us it was more dangerous to breath smoke second hand than to actually smoke? I thought that was absurd then, and still do. Maybe if you were forced to be in an enclosed area day and night with no ventilation you might make the case it is equally harmful to smoking, but to make the argument that simply being around a smoker once in a while, (like in a car going to the grocery store) is as bad or worse than smoking is crazy.

I just saw a report stating that dark chocolate is even more beneficial than first thought! I'm on my way to the store now.

[Catsmeow]

For those of us who don't smoke...it's no skin off our noses. But this is another example of big government coming into people's personal lives and homes and telling them how to live and raise their own children.

Not the same as parents who do what is morally reprehensible, such as physical abuse (i.e. broken bones, et al) and child molestation.

[Giaour]

The only facts that I can go by are my personal experiences with smoke.

My grandfather died at 86 (1 month ago, God rest his soul).

He smoked his whole life and never got "smoke related" illnesses.

His wife never had any either.

My parents both smoked for 30 years and never had any "smoke related" illnesses.

Dad got prostate cancer 6 months after he quit smoking.

Connection there? Uhh, prob not.

Mom smoked when she was pregnant with me.

I grew up with 4 smokers in the house.

I have no "smoke related" illnesses and neither do my 3 sisters.

I smoke (always trying to find an easier way to quit) but my husband does not.

His parents didn't smoke nor were aroound smokers yet they both had cancer.

I quit smoking for 9 months during my pregnancy but then started again.

My son grew up in a smokers house but he has no "smoke related" illnesses.

My son does not smoke. Thank you Jesus.

So, in summary;

Smokers and second hand smokers in my family are healthy and the only ones to get cancer were the ones who were NEVER around smoke.

Go figure.