Suicide

[message]

I have read all the posts on this subject..

I knew someone..

Who was very ill with Depression...

[so I thought, that if I made this post , it just might help you make

up your mind about this subject..

Or maybe it won't???]

Their Depression had a name..It was called DESPAIR....

A really dreadful thing to suffer with..

[it's an ILLNESS an Illness, O.K...It's an Illness,shall we get that straight..

Like every other Illness.. It comes.. Under that same title, of all the others..And like all the other Illnesses,

it just settles on to a person..It's Not Invitied,and it is most Unwelcome too...]

However, my friend, became even lower than ever..

They kept going down a lot lower, than the basement, in the Human Mind..

In fact they told me..That they reached a place, that they didn't know, even existed in their own mind..

And in doing so, this illness, of Depression, called Despair, got worse...

Until, it had another name ALSO..

The other name was, Suicidal Depression..

They became so ill, they had voices, in their head, for ages and ages..

Two of the voices, were always in disagreement, with each other...

The third voice was always chanting to itself..

'I want to live, I want to die...

I want to die, I want to live..

I want to live , I want to die..

and so on and so on, and so on...and so on, and on and on and on and on ,on, on, on, and so on..

My friend really lost mental balance..

In their saner moments, they really did not know, if they wanted to live or die..Anyway!

Because their mind, was really split in two..And half wanted to live and half wanted to die..

It was the type of Depression they had...That caused them to be like that..

They had Nightmares..When they were able to sleep..And during the day..it didn't stop, my friend called them Daymares..Just to sort of, give them some sort of seperation..To somehow give their mind, some sort of relief...As they became in such an, Awful Horrible State..

My friend, had this strange scenario, that wasn't in their mind one day, but the next day it was..

It was like, they had suddenly been given a script..

It was like ALL people had been given a part, in this Important Play..

And it was like,

If they,

didn't take part, then it would ruin everything...Especially RUIN the Play...

The play, had a strong plot.. it was all about Escaping..

Nothing at all. Was about, anyone going to die..Or about Death itself..

It really was just about Escaping..that and that alone..

And all they knew, was that 'the PLAY'..was Ultra, Ultra, Important...........

And when it was near the time of, 'The Play'..

A Compulsion Grew, and Grew and Grew....In fact it's power was so Strong..It was just not Possible, to not Obey it, at all..

When it was time for my friend, to Play her part, in this Play.....

Their part, had to take a lot of pills, lots and lots of them....Which made them feel even worse than ever..But it was Their Part in the play..

After all it was about Escaping.. which my friend longed to do..

Especially now that they felt so ill....

To escape that was their part , and they, didn't want to spoil it for all the others appearing in the Play with them..

Reality, had Long since left them...By the time they had to take the pills.. It Was as though..Every single thought about 'real life', had been wiped from their mind..all that was in their mind was...

Their Part in the Play , and not spoiling it for the others..and the Main bit,

which was Escaping..

My friend went through this Vile, Scenario, again and again and again and more..

It was just the Part in the Play that mattered..

They almost died countless times..

Then one day, after they had yet again rang the Samaritins, for their help..and yet again after a while had the ambulance, come to pick them up..

Something was different about this day..

They became unconscious, in the Ambulance.. and from sitting next to the Ambulance man, in the back..the Ambulance had to stop and my friend was laid down on the bunk..

The Ambulance had to stop three or four times, because no heartbeat could be heard..

My friend, told me that they reached such a wonderful Peacefulness..and they was in this tunnel...And the sweetest peacefulness, they had ever know , came over them again and again..So sweet...and Such Utter Peace..................................

************

I have written this because I felt it may help a lot of people, whom perhaps had lost someone they were close to, in this way.. Perhaps they felt it was their fault, that this had happened..

Please let me assure you that, it was nothing to do with you..

In that persons mind, was one thing and one thing only Escape..

Of course, this is my friends story..I do not know how others storries would go..

But the one thing I am sure of..is that they too would have been offered some sort of script to Play out..and that they too would have gone through the very powerful feelings described here.......

One thing I am sure of, is that no-one could do this sort of self-destruction to themselves..

in cold-blood.. it would be totally impossible..But then the compulsions let it become possible..The power of them and the strong Part you have in the script..

I am almost sure that death and dying has not got anything to do with it..the keyword is, Escape.....

TO ESCAPE!

**********

This is the real truth written here....

My Friend has always been my Friend....My Best Friend....

We are as ONE..

For this is the only way we could be...

It's quite simple you see..

My best Friend, and I are as one...

I am My Best friend, And my best friend is Me..

YES! IT'S ME..

I JUST WANTED TO TRY AND EXPLAIN SOME OF IT.. ALL IS TRUE...AMEN

I JUST WANTED TO EXPLAIN..AND PERHAPS COMFORT SOMEONE..

God Brought Me back 16 times...And He Never Left My Side..

AMEN...

from message X+

[Openly Curious]

but curious, my point is, do you feel that, as a christian, you would have gone to hell had you died before you were to let go of that bitterness? i don't believe you would have... because even though for a period of time it was unconfessed, and unrelinquished, you had not committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. (and OSAS is short for "once saved always saved".

LadyC,

The whole key is I had unconfessed sin that was still present in my life. And until I confessed it and surrendered those particular areas of my life totally over to God the sin remained. It has nothing at all to do with the subject blasphemy of the Holy Spirit and it being the only sin I can't be forgiven of.

It didn't even matter what I felt or didn't feel as a christian the word of God over rode all of it as Jesus said if I don't forgive others of their tresspasses then my Heavenly Father want forgive me of my tresspasses against him. You see God's word wasn't going to change those words in read remained the same no matter what I personally felt.

If I was going to continue I had to fess up and let go and let God have his way further within my heart and life. Till I did then sin remained right in the middle of us. And if I had died in my stubborness and not have forgave then my sin would have condemned me.

It was at this point when I let it all go that I found Jesus not only was my Saviour but also my deliverer. God is so much more that just a Saviour if only folks could come to see this within their walk with the Lord.

For it was one thing to be under conviction where God is trying to get you to see your error and he shines light on those things that are displeasing to him but it is quite another to just day after day refuse to yield to his spirit and hold on to the things he wants us to let go of.

One has to learn in life that God sent Jesus to the cross for us and he forgave us freely and if Christ has suffered all of that shame and agony for us because of our trespasses and sins then we should show forth the same thing amidst our own suffering and tragedies we've had to endure within this life no matter how hard it seems.

Sadly those in desperate need and want in their lives don't receive help they so urgently need from God.

I hope I've answered you if not we can chat some more and thanks for the up's on "OSAS"

God Bless

Openly Curious

[eric]

CoachPurse.

You have had several responses to your OP and they are pretty varied, because IMO nobody knows for sure. I have been very close to three people who have taken their own live, one being my mother, and only God can say where their spirit finished up.

I don't know how uncofessed sin got into the thread or what it has to do with suicide.

I have been in the situation where I was weighing up the options of topping myself, when I was convicted be the Holy Spirit and had my first encounter with Jesus, that was about twenty years ago and have never given suicide another thought.

Since then I have always reverted to the bible when things get rough. 1.Cor.10:13 says this

There has no temptation taken you such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to make to escape that ye may be able to bear it.

I use that verse as comfort more than any other verse in the bible, believing it to be true, through faith. If you don't believe it, then you are not a true born again christian, because you are calling God a liar........The answer to your question?....... nobody knows for sure IMO.

The pronoun *you* is a general term.

e

[Elihu's Girl]

CoachPurse.

You have had several responses to your OP and they are pretty varied, because IMO nobody knows for sure. I have been very close to three people who have taken their own live, one being my mother, and only God can say where their spirit finished up.

I don't know how uncofessed sin got into the thread or what it has to do with suicide.

I have been in the situation where I was weighing up the options of topping myself, when I was convicted be the Holy Spirit and had my first encounter with Jesus, that was about twenty years ago and have never given suicide another thought.

Since then I have always reverted to the bible when things get rough. 1.Cor.10:13 says this

There has no temptation taken you such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to make to escape that ye may be able to bear it.

I use that verse as comfort more than any other verse in the bible, believing it to be true, through faith. If you don't believe it, then you are not a true born again christian, because you are calling God a liar........The answer to your question?....... nobody knows for sure IMO.

The pronoun *you* is a general term.

e

Hebrews 9:27 Man is destined to die once, and after that face judgement.

Trust in God. And the fact that God is completely good and completely just. Your friend is not facing the judgement of a biased or unfair judge. As eric says, we don't know what happens to believers who commit suicide. We cannot see the heart of a human being, only God can. That is how God judges. If your friend accepted Jesus as their savior I believe they are in Heaven with God.

www.christiananswers.net highlights some good verses and talks about suicide in these two links. Link 1, Link 2

Your friend is gone but you are still here. Where will you go from here? Please read through the links and (as my mom would say) turn your pain and fears into prayers.

[nebula]

Their Depression had a name..It was called DESPAIR....

A really dreadful thing to suffer with..

Message - I know exactly what you are talking about!

And yes, "despair" is an apt description.

No one who has never faced this darkness can truly comprehend how hard it is, how desperate the need to . . . yes, escape.

I've always called it hopelessness, though.

Dreadful hopelessness - no hope of the pain ever ending . . .

If I could just end it all. . . .

I was saved, though, by a group of people who prayed and prophesied over me.

It all just broke! The pain, the confusion, the despair - all gone!

I still have a chronic depression problem, but I'm able to work through it now, rather than being overcome by it all the time.

Messabe, it is possible that those voices are not you, but evil spirits messing with your soul. I know how it is, because I've had that, too. You believe your thoughts and feelings are you, but in truth they are not. I was fortunate to know enough about demonization to recognize what was happening to me when it happened and was thus able to rebuke it until it left (and it felt like slime gliding off when it left - literally!). But after it was gone, I felt like myself again.

I know it's hard, but you've got to fight those "voices." They may not be you.

The Lord must want you here on the Earth in a big way for this to be happening to you. That play is a lie from Satan. Do you understand this?

That play is a lie from Satan, and you don't have to act it.

Keep calling on Jesus to save you and rebuke the spirit of death. One day, death is going to die. It is not your friend.

Death wants you to break the Lord's heart by taking your life. Don't break the Lord's heart.

Jesus . . . Jesus . . . Jesus . . .

[50_Cent's_dog]

I just bothers me that people are not secure in their faith. Why would God send somebody to Hell, that has received Jesus as Lord and Savior?

Does it say anywhere in the Bible that we are "saved" as long as we don't do this sin or that sin? If that is true then what sins does God permit? Are there sins that God won't save us from? Which ones? Jesus died to save us from all sins even murder and suicide.

I do like what Will's Mom said though. (God won't give us more than we can handle.) Suicide is evil in God's eyes because it is sin. Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. Why would God send a person Born of God to Hell? It just doesn't make sense to me. All sin is sin.

Hello '50_Cent's_dog',

You said, "All sin is sin"

Where will unconfessed sins send you?

It say in 1 John aslo, that all wrongdoing is sin. If the bible tells us all wrongdoing is sin then where will my sins send me if they are unconfessed?

Yes, "All sin is sin" and murder is not the fruit of the Spirit either so where will unconfessed sin send one?

Murderers shall have no part in the holy city New Jerusalem so where will unconfessed sin send the transgressors of God's word. "All sin is sin"

Openly Curious

I understand your thoughts on "unconfessed" sin. Let me ask you a question. How many times have you forgot to confess a sin? I know that you probably will say that you confessed every sin that you ever committed. How can you be so positive that you confessed every sin?

Will God send me to hell even though He gave me the faith to receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour 10 years ago. I am righteous in God's eyes because He gave me the faith to believe in Jesus and what He did on the cross. Just as Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as rightiousness. Did Abraham sin? Yes, but God still considered Abraham righteous because he believed God and had faith.

50 cent dog,

To him that doeth righteousness is righteous him that doeth unrighteousness is unrighteous that is what it say in Romans

This meaning those who do right in God's sight are the righteous. Those who willfully choose to go against God and do the wrong is the unrighteous or wicked in this world and they do not possess the righteousness which is in Jesus Christ. As Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto as righteousness. You said the key word "Faith"

The person who commits suicide has given up that "faith" you speak of they have cast it aside and taken matters into their own hands and are choosing to do their own will and way over the will of God. They have taken their trust out of God choosing not to confide with him in fellowship about their problems and deep needs as a result cannot get more of the much needed grace in which they so desperately need within their lives. For God giveth more grace to the humble. As the word also tells us to Let us come boldly to the throne of grace that we may obtain mercy and grace in our time of need.

We are also to make our prayers and petitions known to him the word tells us because in our weaknesses Christ will be made strong if we just keep our faith and don't cast it aside. Also the word tell us that those who endure to the end shall be saved and we are to fight the good fight of faith. We have to earnestly contend for our faith lest we loose it and give up as the case of those who want to give up and commit suicide.

There is alot of marriages that bust up because they give up on it and don't go to God in the midst of their troubles and get forgiveness and more grace in their time of need. The grace of God is sufficient for every need we have no matter how big or small we think our problems are our own solutions only makes things worse when we fail and put our faith elsewhere.

Sometimes our trials in life feel like their choking us and we will never make it through them and sadly some don't survive their trials. But if we don't stay with Jesus we loose all the way around.

I do not claim to be a perfect Christian as you seemed to suggest that I am. I have faults and failures that come into my life and when the Lord makes them known to me they have to go if I want my relationship to continue with Him. I want the fellowship with my heavenly Father to continue as sin is how it is broken. So I will endeavor to walk a life of obedience in his sight and will shun the wrong and cling to the right. In other words I'm gonna put up a good scrap in the fight to keep my faith til the end. Because the trial of our faith will have great recompense of reward in the end.

I know also that if I walk in obedience to God and do his will then I will have confidence before Him to ask what I will when I get into his presence through prayer and I know he will hear me according to 1 John That is my confidence and that is what I trust in. And it is a shame that a person who once was a believer who once put their trust in Jesus didn't come to this knowledge or couldn't no longer trust in the truth of his word and chose rather to end their life.

As far as your question will God send you to hell even though he gave you faith to accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour 10 years ago. Well, first I am not the judge of your eternal soul for I do not know of your walk with God. But I will warn you to keep your relationship right with you and the Lord all the days of your life don't let anything get between you and Him. Guard it with the utmost care for it is sin that breaks that fellowship with him and steals our confidence away from us to approach him to ask and receive the things we so desperately need pertaing to this life and godliness.

God had dealt to every man a measure of faith but not everyone acts upon that measure of faith given to them as there are still unbelievers who have not acted on that faith given them by God. Not every person will choose to walk out their faith or their profession of that faith they say they have.

God Bless

Openly Curious

Hey OpenlyCurious,

I agree with most of what you say. I just don't believe that you can lose your salvation. We can lose our fellowship with God though. We have to do our best to move forward in our relationship with God to have fellowship. Confession of sins is very important for the fellowship with God. We have to walk the straight and narrow to be pleasing to God and to have fellowship.

For example: I am going to church tomorrow because I want to be obedient to God. I want to have fellowship with Him. I am not going to church to keep my salvation. If I chose to stay home tomorrow because I didn't want to go to church it would be sin. I would lose fellowship but I would not lose my salvation.

In my ten years of being a "Born Again" Christian I have fallen away from God. I lost my fellowship with Him. I was miserable. I sinned and acted like the world. I still had the saving faith though. I knew that I was wrong for the things that I was doing. The Holy Spirit kept convicting me of sin. In fact a few months ago when I was not walking the straight and narrow, I prayed and asked God to speak to me through the Bible. I opened the Bible to (Psalm 128:1-4) It says," Blessed are all who fear the Lord, who walk in His ways. You will eat the fruit of your labor;blessings and prosperity will be yours. Your wife will be like a fruitful vine within your house; your son will be like olive shoots around your table. Thus is the man blessed who fears the Lord. I believe that God gave me that verse because he was prooving to me that He still heard my prayers. He knew that I wanted to put Him first. He knew that I wanted to be married in the future and have children. He also knew that I felt like a liability at all my former jobs. I actually gave money back to my former employer to make myself feel more valuable. Anyway, I still didn't walk the straight and narrow until last month. I was at a non Christian friend's house and felt so rejected. When I came home I prayed and asked God to take control of my life. I told Him that I want Psalm 128 to take place in my life. I have had fellowship with God the last month but I always had my salvation since I was saved.

I hope that you understand what I wrote. I am positive that you can lose fellowship with God. I am 100% sure that you can not lose your salvation. If I lost my salvation why was the Holy Spirit still with me?

May God bless you as you continue to have fellowship with Him.

[50_Cent's_dog]

Lady C,

I am certainly interested in what Openly Curious has to say in response to your question, but it is my opinion that it comes down to the issue of wilful sin vs a sin someone is unaware of. For instance, it is possible that I might have unforgiveness towards someone and don't realize it. That is not a wilful sin. Then one day, God brings it to my attention. Now I am responsible to do something about it. If I refuse to confess that sin, and let the bitterness go, now my sin has become wilful rebellion, and if I died, I would wind up in hell. It is not that it is an unpardonable sin. The only reason it would cost me my soul, is because I did nothing about it. Jesus said if we refuse to forgive others when they tresspass against us, then he won't forgive our sins. That is pretty plain. Obviously I don't believe The OSAS doctrine.

Obviously I believe in the OSAS doctrine. That is why I love Jesus so much. That is why I want fellowship with Him. How can someone with your theology love Jesus? He might send you to hell because you messed up along the way. Aren't you scared of being rejected in the future.

I have heard your arguements before so you don't have to give me all the scripture to back up what you are saying because I have scripture that is in my favor. What I am saying is that Jesus died for a relationship with me. I believe that I am saved forever. For that reason I love Him and want to walk the straight and narrow. I want fellowship with God by being obedient. It seems that you might love God but are so afraid of going to hell. That might be your motivation for walking the straight and narrow. Those who reject OSAS.

[Openly Curious]

CoachPurse.

You have had several responses to your OP and they are pretty varied, because IMO nobody knows for sure. I have been very close to three people who have taken their own live, one being my mother, and only God can say where their spirit finished up.

I don't know how uncofessed sin got into the thread or what it has to do with suicide.

I have been in the situation where I was weighing up the options of topping myself, when I was convicted be the Holy Spirit and had my first encounter with Jesus, that was about twenty years ago and have never given suicide another thought.

Since then I have always reverted to the bible when things get rough. 1.Cor.10:13 says this

There has no temptation taken you such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to make to escape that ye may be able to bear it.

I use that verse as comfort more than any other verse in the bible, believing it to be true, through faith. If you don't believe it, then you are not a true born again christian, because you are calling God a liar........The answer to your question?....... nobody knows for sure IMO.

The pronoun *you* is a general term.

e

Hello eric,

First I share in your great loss and have the deepest sympathy. I also have had a family member of my own who thought that was the way of escape as well and gave into that temptation being a believer in God and I've tried to go down that same road in my own life due to my own terrible tragedies that have happened within my life trying to escape the pain but thank God I was unsucessful so I've been there.

I guess you haven't been reading the thread to closely or you would have seen where unconfessed sin entered the conversation at and how it applied to the subject.

It is a great scripture you have chosen to comfort yourself with and I am very familiar with it myself. I do not understand your strong statement, "if you don't believe it then you are not a true born again christian, because you are calling God a liar." Well that's a pretty bold statement coming from you especially after I read your post about losing 3 people to suicide.

I'll comment on it in a moment.

The thread started out with the question, would those who committed suicide go to hell even if they were believers. Now the subject from the start is dealing with non-believers who commit suicide as well as believers who commit suicide and regarding christians who commits suicide will they go to hell.

The only thing I have to use for the answers concerning this issue is the bible.

The word is clear about "unbelievers" who reject Jesus they indeed will go to hell for their sins as they are unconfessed and not been forgiven even in the case of suicide. They still in their life time did not accept Jesus as their personal saviour and as a result these people will go to hell according to God's word. I'll talk more on this in a moment.

The case concerning the believers who commit suicide, The word is clear in regards to believers faults and failures we are to come to the Father and confess them if a believer dies in the case of suicide then their soul has been lost eternally as they had no more time left within this life to confess their sin which was murder of self. I'll talk more on this in a moment also.

Regarding the scripture you used about no temptation hath taken you such as is common to man but God is faithful who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able but will with the temptation make a way of escape that ye may be able to bear it.

Suicide is like any other temptations that are common to man . And you yourself have found in your own life being a believer that when things get rough you have come to rely on this scripture.

I think that is great but alot of believer's don't see the truth that lay within this verse as Satan brings this type of temptations to them. One can only bear there temptations that come to them as they realize and come to the knowledge of what "the way of escape" is that this verse is talking about that God has made for us in order that we may be able to endure the various temptations that enter our lives.

And that way of escape is Jesus Christ if we will just be humble and come to him in our troubles trials and temptations then we can receive what it is we are in desperate need of especially in the case of suicide. Coming to Jesus putting our trust and faith in him is the way of escape.

And when a christian commits suicide they did not find the way of escape in Christ but instead gave into the temptation when the suicidal thoughts came they killed themselves as they thought within their own right it was the way of escape. But giving into the temptations was "Not" that way of escape that was provided for the believers. So the believers who give in a commit suicide are giving in to the tempations of the devil and not resisted his will upon them.

Now saying all that I understand their are mental disorders out there not all suicidal cases are mental disorders where the persons mind does not function properly. These types of people I leave it to God and have no opinion on at all. For the bible doesn't give me thus far any insight in this regards. Except in the hope that God is our great Physcian and he can heal our wounded minds and hearts.

There are those (both believers and unbelievers) whom have committed suicide that did not die right away as there was time that passed in between the time they actually died. I do not know if these people during that time truly repented and was sorry after they did it but could not turn back the clock. But if they repented during that time God is faithful and just both to the unbeliever and the believer. I believe as long as there is breath left in one's body they can confess and be forgiven. There is always hope for forgiveness to be granted as long as there is breath in the body. But once it is gone all hope is gone to receive forgiveness of sin.

Well this is my position on the matter for what it is worth I just know there is hope in Jesus and he will help those if they would but come to him.

God bless

Openly Curious

[Guest LadyC]

Lady C,

I am certainly interested in what Openly Curious has to say in response to your question, but it is my opinion that it comes down to the issue of wilful sin vs a sin someone is unaware of. For instance, it is possible that I might have unforgiveness towards someone and don't realize it. That is not a wilful sin. Then one day, God brings it to my attention. Now I am responsible to do something about it. If I refuse to confess that sin, and let the bitterness go, now my sin has become wilful rebellion, and if I died, I would wind up in hell. It is not that it is an unpardonable sin. The only reason it would cost me my soul, is because I did nothing about it. Jesus said if we refuse to forgive others when they tresspass against us, then he won't forgive our sins. That is pretty plain. Obviously I don't believe The OSAS doctrine.

Obviously I believe in the OSAS doctrine. That is why I love Jesus so much. That is why I want fellowship with Him. How can someone with your theology love Jesus? He might send you to hell because you messed up along the way. Aren't you scared of being rejected in the future.

I have heard your arguements before so you don't have to give me all the scripture to back up what you are saying because I have scripture that is in my favor. What I am saying is that Jesus died for a relationship with me. I believe that I am saved forever. For that reason I love Him and want to walk the straight and narrow. I want fellowship with God by being obedient. It seems that you might love God but are so afraid of going to hell. That might be your motivation for walking the straight and narrow. Those who reject OSAS.

i really didn't want this to get off topic onto the OSAS argument, but i have to say something here... i think it's very foolish to question how anyone who does not believe in OSAS could possibly love Jesus. i do not agree with the OSAS theory, because it doesn't line up with the totality of scripture. i don't fear my salvation because i know the only way a christian can become "unsaved" so to speak is to WILLFULLY kick God out of their life. salvation isn't lost in that instance, nor is it stolen... it's rejected. not only do i have no reason to fear losing my salvation, it gives me assurance and comfort to know that it can only be forfieted by choice. i can assure you, i love Jesus as much as you do.

that being said, my curiousity of how OSAS'ers felt regarding whether suicide could result in a christian being kicked out of heaven was to see if OSAS'ers contradicted themselves by believing a christian who commits suicide would go to hell. personally i do not believe in OSAS, NOR do i believe a person who commits suicide after knowing Jesus has willfully chosen to forfiet their salvation. if a person believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth that Jesus is Lord, sent to earth fully man and fully God, and sacrificed His physical life to pay for our sins, and rose again three days later to live ever more at the right hand of God, then i will see that person in heaven one day. suicide doesn't necessarily mean that a person stops believing God is Lord.

and since as some have pointed out, most suicides are caused by deep despair which is a form of mental illness, then i don't believe that premeditation should automatically be labeled of the person. if that's the case, then the law of the land is more compassionate than God, and that just does not compute.

[Lasere]

Gods compassion, love and mercy for these ones may give them the opportunity to find redemption in him. They have been overcome by the evils of this world instead of turning to Our Lord to overcome and bear their burdens for them. They are not evil, just desperate and I hope they find refuge in Gods arms.