Dietary Laws & Sabbath Keeping

[nanasimmons]

"NEW TESTAMENT" (will) sorry.........

Hebrews 9:16 for where there is atesament there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead since it has no power at all while the testator still lives.

Matt 5:17

Jesus, still under the old covenant "law" (before the New Testament Testator died) before He shed the blood for the new testament.Mark 14:24 "This is My blood of the "new covenant" which is shed for many also( 1Cor 11:25) He came to bring to deeper meanig about the law in a sense, of bringing to completion it's partial revelation giving the true interpretation to it's moral precepts

Just in case(ha ha) there were any that still felt they had kept the whole law.

the law is to show ALL have sinned and fall short..

Romans 10:3,4

V.3 For they being ignorant of God's righteuosness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness not have submitted to the righteousness of God

V.4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

[Smalcald]

Well we all agree with that, no one is saying that the Law saves us, or that we can totally fulfill the law, we all agree that salvation rests only in faith in Christ alone.

But so what? The discussion is about obedience, not salvation. How do we love Christ, which if we have faith we all want to do? Christ said if you love me follow my commandments. So it would seem a very important task to understand if we are to keep the laws of the covenant, are we to not eat pork are we to observe the Saturday Sabbath?

I mean those would seem to be important questions.

[Guest yod]

I can only go by what the original community of faith did and said.

they "did" believe the torah to be God's instructions for them. It was a shock for Peter to ever consider eating anything unclean...and the oral law of the Pharisee had taken that to mean that jews could not even be in the room with a gentile while eating.

But when the Lord showed Peter that He had made the gentiles clean and they were not to be treated as "unclean", the original faith community of jerusalem held a council to discuss the matter and decided that gentiles were immune to the circumcision requirements and gave a "starter-set" of laws for righteous behavior.

Then said that since Moses is read every shabbat in the gathering, these new converts would come along at their own pace through the same agency by which they were immersed, the Holy Spirit.

So this sounds like the bible teaches us that the law is still good and useful for questions of what is good, proper, and righteousness....and for knowing God's character. But it is not to be forced on anyone who is unwilling to accept Yeshua's yoke.

[nanasimmons]

I came out of this dicussion more convinced than when I came in

what more can be said?? I don't see how it is possible live under the law and under grace at the same time..Strattling the fence as I see it. But I still wish I could helped my friend but some of the replies on this post has proven to me anyways she doesn't just need "help" she needs The "Help"er I can't give her the "Comfort"er she needs...thanks for helping me see that. I thought it me that couldn't help her to see past the veil

[Guest shiloh357]

I came out of this dicussion more convinced than when I came in

what more can be said?? I don't see how it is possible live under the law and under grace at the same time..Strattling the fence as I see it. But I still wish I could helped my friend but some of the replies on this post has proven to me anyways she doesn't just need "help" she needs The "Help"er I can't give her the "Comfort"er she needs...thanks for helping me see that. I thought it me that couldn't help her to see past the veil

Part of your problem is that you don't know what "under the Law" means. "Under the Law" does not mean, "living within the framework of the Law/Torah.

So you cannot live according to the Law and be under grace??? Do you murder, steal, sleep with whoever??? Do you disobey the commandments of God? What you are really saying is that you don't understand how Jews can remain and still be believers. You act like the commandments of God are some dirty thing to be shunned. When you talk about the Torah, you are talking about part of the Word of God. There is not one righteous deed you can do that is not defined by the Torah. Every commandment in the New Testament is rooted in the Torah given at Sinai.

When Paul uses the term "under the Law," and "under Grace" he is referring to your spiritual standing before God. When you are a sinner, you are under the Law. When you get saved, you are "under grace." Paul tells us in Romans 6 that those who are under the law, are those who are slaves to sin i.e. the unsaved. Every person who is born is born under the Law. They never leave that position until they are born again. If you die without Christ, you will stand before God under the law. If you die in Christ, you stand before God under grace.

Too often people think Paul is talking about living within the framework of the Law, when he uses the term "under the law" in Romans 6. It is a common misunderstanding.

[nanasimmons]

Me nor my friend is a jew . But she twists everything the scriptures say concerning diet,law, circumision ect..Paul had been given revelations by Jesus himself he didn't go running to to disciples when he was called by Christ to find out everything he could about Jesus' teachings while they were with Him. He didn't come with all his great and wise wisdom that he learned as a pharisee he counted it all loss..Now we gentiles are told "the Bible says this and that but you cant understand it it means the opposite of what you think it says here let me pull up a scripture verse here and there oh yea theres one over here, theres even one or two verses in the new testament to prove it doesn't say what all the Bible teachers and Bible scholars say" meanwhile there is (not a verse) BUT chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter Making perfect sense to the adverage Spirit filled born again believer. But now that we've been freed by Christ we are suppose to rip our new testaments off our Bibles ,better yet put in on a shelf to collect dust then run out and buy every jewish history book we can get our hands on learn the oralcles laws, rabbinacle laws wear tassels on all of our clothes and who knows what else...So that we can understand what the Bible says??? So we can be puffed up with pride and say "I thank thee God that I'm not like this here lawless lawbreaking gentile, I fast, pay my tithes,I keep the law as a matter of fact I can keep it all now it's so easy and You love and bless me more than them because of it ect..."???NO it's so we can be entangled the into legalism that we in our supposive ingnorance thought we were warned not to do........... to make a few modern day pharisees happy...

No thanks I'm not going to unbelieve what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me for years now.

I don't want to lose my peace, I will keep the faith

My friend has always been on the extreme side of everything since she was little and shes in her late 30s and I see the same oldman in a new pretty package..shes alway been a rebel (kicking against the goads)

[Guest shiloh357]

Me nor my friend is a jew . But she twists everything the scriptures say concerning diet,law, circumision ect..Paul had been given revelations by Jesus himself he didn't go running to to disciples when he was called by Christ to find out everything he could about Jesus' teachings while they were with Him. He didn't come with all his great and wise wisdom that he learned as a pharisee he counted it all loss..Now we gentiles are told "the Bible says this and that but you cant understand it it means the opposite of what you think it says here let me pull up a scripture verse here and there oh yea theres one over here, theres even one or two verses in the new testament to prove it doesn't say what all the Bible teachers and Bible scholars say" meanwhile there is (not a verse) BUT chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter after chapter Making perfect sense to the adverage Spirit filled born again believer. But now that we've been freed by Christ we are suppose to rip our new testaments off our Bibles ,better yet put in on a shelf to collect dust then run out and buy every jewish history book we can get our hands on learn the oralcles laws, rabbinacle laws wear tassels on all of our clothes and who knows what else...So that we can understand what the Bible says??? So we can be puffed up with pride and say "I thank thee God that I'm not like this here lawless lawbreaking gentile, I fast, pay my tithes,I keep the law as a matter of fact I can keep it all now it's so easy and You love and bless me more than them because of it ect..."???NO it's so we can be entangled the into legalism that we in our supposive ingnorance thought we were warned not to do........... to make a few modern day pharisees happy...

No thanks I'm not going to unbelieve what the Holy Spirit has been teaching me for years now.

I don't want to lose my peace, I will keep the faith

My friend has always been on the extreme side of everything since she was little and shes in her late 30s and I see the same oldman in a new pretty package..shes alway been a rebel (kicking against the goads)

This is nothing but an knee-jerk emotional response. No one here has suggested ONE thing that you rant and rave about this post. You completely mischaracterize us, and accuse of saying what we have not said. I would like you for you to cut and paste any remarks from this thead where I or yod or someone has said that everyone must become Jews or that we should "rip" our New Testament off of our Bibles. Such silly rants demonstrate that you are unwilling to engage in intelligent rational discussion and prefer to paint our remarks as you want them to appear.

We have not been set free from the Torah/Law of God. It is still a sin to murder, still a sin to steal, commit adultery, engage in fraudulent business deals, sleep with your neighbor's spouse, lie, gossip, slander, and so forth. Homosexuality is still a sin.

Jesus set us free from sin, not the commandments of God. We have been set free from guilt and condemnation that comes being in bondage to sin.

I would be interested to learn your take on the fact that Paul, who you seem to think is anti-Torah, performed the rites for the Nazarite vow twice in the book of Acts, including sacrificing animals. (Acts 18:18, 12:26) How about the fact that Paul himself observed the Festivals mentioned in the Torah? (Acts 18:21, 20:16) Paul even circumcized Timothy in Acts 16. Was Paul being weakminded and immature for remaining a Jew???

[Guest yod]

Whoa nannie!

Your are either misunderstanding us...or purposely mischaracterizing every word that has been said.

It doesn't appear that you are really concerned about "understanding" your friend. You are looking for a way to prove her wrong because it challenges you to hear things that "bible scholars" never told you.

Oh well...good luck with that.

[K.L.]

"NEW TESTAMENT" (will) sorry.........

Hebrews 9:16 for where there is atesament there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is in force after men are dead since it has no power at all while the testator still lives.

Matt 5:17

Jesus, still under the old covenant "law" (before the New Testament Testator died) before He shed the blood for the new testament.Mark 14:24 "This is My blood of the "new covenant" which is shed for many also( 1Cor 11:25) He came to bring to deeper meanig about the law in a sense, of bringing to completion it's partial revelation giving the true interpretation to it's moral precepts

Just in case(ha ha) there were any that still felt they had kept the whole law.

the law is to show ALL have sinned and fall short..

Romans 10:3,4

V.3 For they being ignorant of God's righteuosness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness not have submitted to the righteousness of God

V.4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes

Heb 9:13-18 For if the blood of bulls and goats, and ashes of a heifer sprinkling those having been defiled, sanctifies to the purity of the flesh, (14) by how much more the blood of Christ (who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God), will purify your conscience from dead works, to serve the living God! (15) And because of this He is Mediator of a new covenant, so that, death having occurred for redemption of transgressions under the first covenant, those being called might receive the promise of the everlasting inheritance. (16) For where a covenant is, the death of him having covenanted must be offered. (17) For a covenant is affirmed over those dead, since it never has force when he who has covenanted is living. (18) From which neither the first covenant was dedicated without blood.

Please do not take scripture out of context.

Mat 5:17-18 Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill. (18) Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass.

Please do not take scripture out of context.

Rom 10:2-9 For I testify to them that they have zeal to God, but not according to knowledge. (3) For being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, they did not submit to the righteousness of God. (4) For Christ is the end of Law for righteousness to everyone that believes. (5) For Moses writes of the righteousness which is of the Law: "The man doing these things shall live by them." Lev. 18:5 (6) But the righteousness of faith says this: "Do not say in your heart, Who will go up into Heaven?" (that is, to bring down Christ); (7) or, "Who will go down into the abyss?" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead.) (8) But what does it say? "The Word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the Word of faith which we proclaim) Deuteronomy 30:12-14. (9) Because if you confess the Lord Jesus with your mouth, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Please do not take scripture out of context

Just a little lesson on words. Did you know the word Righteousness in Hebrew "tsed-aw-kaw' refers to justice. The word for righteousness means law biding, following law. But words are words. How about scripture

Deu 6:25 And it shall be righteousness unto us, if we observe to do all this commandment before the LORD our God, as He hath commanded us.'

"the New Testament Testator died" and has become our end to righteousness. You want to know how to become righteous? Yeshua. Now what. Do what righteousness requires. Live as a righteous person should live. Be like Yeshua. He followed the Law. And until "the heavens and earth pass away, and all things are fulfilled" I will continue following Yeshua as my guide. because he did not come to take away the law, but to be its fulfillment. As Paul so eloquently stated, Yeshua is what law abiding people wish to accomplish, and now lawless man can obtain it first through Yeshua. Praise God.

Yod, Shiloh357, lets not forget, we were all there once.

K.L.

[Guest yod]

Yod, Shiloh357, lets not forget, we were all there once.

K.L.

where?

I was an atheist who read the Bible for what it says and in the process avoided being indoctrinated to things that aren't in there.