Truth about the crusades

[Giaour]

Christianity Today, Week of May 2

The Real History of the Crusades

A series of holy wars against Islam led by power-mad popes and fought by religious fanatics? Think again.

by Thomas F. Madden | posted 05/06/2005 09:00 a.m.

With the possible exception of Umberto Eco, medieval scholars are not used to getting much media attention. We tend to be a quiet lot (except during the annual bacchanalia we call the International Congress on Medieval Studies in Kalamazoo, Michigan, of all places), poring over musty chronicles and writing dull yet meticulous studies that few will read. Imagine, then, my surprise when within days of the September 11 attacks, the Middle Ages suddenly became relevant.

As a Crusade historian, I found the tranquil solitude of the ivory tower shattered by journalists, editors, and talk-show hosts on tight deadlines eager to get the real scoop. What were the Crusades?, they asked. When were they? Just how insensitive was President George W. Bush for using the word crusade in his remarks? With a few of my callers I had the distinct impression that they already knew the answers to their questions, or at least thought they did. What they really wanted was an expert to say it all back to them. For example, I was frequently asked to comment on the fact that the Islamic world has a just grievance against the West. Doesn't the present violence, they persisted, have its roots in the Crusades' brutal and unprovoked attacks against a sophisticated and tolerant Muslim world? In other words, aren't the Crusades really to blame?

Osama bin Laden certainly thinks so. In his various video performances, he never fails to describe the American war against terrorism as a new Crusade against Islam. Ex-president Bill Clinton has also fingered the Crusades as the root cause of the present conflict. In a speech at Georgetown University, he recounted (and embellished) a massacre of Jews after the Crusader conquest of Jerusalem in 1099 and informed his audience that the episode was still bitterly remembered in the Middle East. (Why Islamist terrorists should be upset about the killing of Jews was not explained.) Clinton took a beating on the nation's editorial pages for wanting so much to blame the United States that he was willing to reach back to the Middle Ages. Yet no one disputed the ex-president's fundamental premise.

Well, almost no one. Many historians had been trying to set the record straight on the Crusades long before Clinton discovered them. They are not revisionists, like the American historians who manufactured the Enola Gay exhibit, but mainstream scholars offering the fruit of several decades of very careful, very serious scholarship. For them, this is a "teaching moment," an opportunity to explain the Crusades while people are actually listening. It won't last long, so here goes.

The threat of Islam

Misconceptions about the Crusades are all too common. The Crusades are generally portrayed as a series of holy wars against Islam led by power-mad popes and fought by religious fanatics. They are supposed to have been the epitome of self-righteousness and intolerance, a black stain on the history of the Catholic Church in particular and Western civilization in general. A breed of proto-imperialists, the Crusaders introduced Western aggression to the peaceful Middle East and then deformed the enlightened Muslim culture, leaving it in ruins. For variations on this theme, one need not look far. See, for example, Steven Runciman's famous three-volume epic, History of the Crusades, or the BBC/A&E documentary, The Crusades, hosted by Terry Jones. Both are terrible history yet wonderfully entertaining.

So what is the truth about the Crusades? Scholars are still working some of that out. But much can already be said with certainty. For starters, the Crusades to the East were in every way defensive wars. They were a direct response to Muslim aggression

[Leonard]

My prayer is that all may read and understand......

[aku]

Peace be upon you

The funny part is that though the church claims Islam was spread by the sword they often fail to mention the REAL facts:

- In Europe anyone who did not believe in Christianity was called a Blasphemer and put to death!

This is what they did and brought about war with the Muslims in te first place because Islam was being embraced by people

- In Europe anyone who believed in science and suggested theories to contradict Christianity was labelled a Heretic and killed!

Islam supports science and vice versa, and stopped this persecution against people!

- In Europe women were being killed being labelled witches when they stood up for their rights!

Islam came to liberate them!

Furthermore if we go on in History Hitler A christian..labelled a non Christian? How so when he himself said in his speech:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 [baynes]

Further more we talk about the Muslims being a "warring bunch" but lets take a look at the history of the Christian world.

WW I - started and fought by Christians

WW II - Started and fought by Christians

Two of the biggest wars in the history of humanity! Yet the Muslims are a warring bunch?

Even if we look at the history of medivial Europe we see much war all the time. France, Britain, Germany, Spain all looted the countries and cultures around the world making war on them! We only need to look at the Spanish and how they looted the Aztecs to see the reality of that!

Furthermore in the medivial ages we look at the Muslim world vs the Christian world we see that the Muslim world was the light of the world - Baghdad was the scientific capital of the world! And that was during the peak of Islamic empire.

Then came the downfall of Islamic empire after nearly a 1000 years when Muslim nations become fragmented and disunited (which you see in todays world) - When you talk about Saddam Hussein and such people dont even refer to Islam because Saddam hussein was a communist and Islam and communism do not mix!

And finally in conclusion I would say simply one thing. Please watch the PBS documentary: Islam Empire of Faith

And you will see exactly how insignificant the crusades truly were against the Muslim Empire. While the Muslim empire spread across 3 continents the Crucades were being faught over Jeuresulem? 1 Place? And that was the might of the Christian empire that it could not topple one Islamic City! Amazing! The fact is and will remain (hopefully unless they change history books around) that the Crusades were actually Barbaric and totally unholy to defend a Church and doctrine which supported the killing of innocent women as witches, scientists as heritics and apostates as blasphemers!

[rfw]

Good info here. I've often thought the Muslim angst about the Crusades had more to do with religious or political indoctrination than historical fact. Leave it to the left-wing press to gather more sound bites than information.

[Giaour]

Peace be upon you

The funny part is that though the church claims Islam was spread by the sword they often fail to mention the REAL facts:

- In Europe anyone who did not believe in Christianity was called a Blasphemer and put to death!

This is what they did and brought about war with the Muslims in te first place because Islam was being embraced by people

- In Europe anyone who believed in science and suggested theories to contradict Christianity was labelled a Heretic and killed!

Islam supports science and vice versa, and stopped this persecution against people!

- In Europe women were being killed being labelled witches when they stood up for their rights!

Islam came to liberate them!

Furthermore if we go on in History Hitler A christian..labelled a non Christian? How so when he himself said in his speech:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 [baynes]

Further more we talk about the Muslims being a "warring bunch" but lets take a look at the history of the Christian world.

WW I - started and fought by Christians

WW II - Started and fought by Christians

Two of the biggest wars in the history of humanity! Yet the Muslims are a warring bunch?

Even if we look at the history of medivial Europe we see much war all the time. France, Britain, Germany, Spain all looted the countries and cultures around the world making war on them! We only need to look at the Spanish and how they looted the Aztecs to see the reality of that!

Furthermore in the medivial ages we look at the Muslim world vs the Christian world we see that the Muslim world was the light of the world - Baghdad was the scientific capital of the world! And that was during the peak of Islamic empire.

Then came the downfall of Islamic empire after nearly a 1000 years when Muslim nations become fragmented and disunited (which you see in todays world) - When you talk about Saddam Hussein and such people dont even refer to Islam because Saddam hussein was a communist and Islam and communism do not mix!

And finally in conclusion I would say simply one thing. Please watch the PBS documentary: Islam Empire of Faith

And you will see exactly how insignificant the crusades truly were against the Muslim Empire. While the Muslim empire spread across 3 continents the Crucades were being faught over Jeuresulem? 1 Place? And that was the might of the Christian empire that it could not topple one Islamic City! Amazing! The fact is and will remain (hopefully unless they change history books around) that the Crusades were actually Barbaric and totally unholy to defend a Church and doctrine which supported the killing of innocent women as witches, scientists as heritics and apostates as blasphemers!

Would you mind posting some links to the information you posted?

I would like some facts on the statements you have made.

[DaniJ87]

hmm... interesting...

Edited April 2, 2006 by DaniJ87

[aku]

which exactly would you like verified?

Hitler was a Christian?

Also watch PBS documentary called Islam: Empire of Faith Website

Islamic Empire was the Light of the medivial world?

As for the history of the Christian kingdom in the middle ages and the wars which went on you can check Wikipedia

I am sure you will also find the info there on the "Heritics" "Blasphemers" and "Witches" about which even movies have been made one which comes to mind is the Curcible. And furthermore this information is widely known how supressive the Church was which led to the Rennisance.

One simple Example: Barbarosa The Holy Roman Emperor: Self instated emperor, replaced the Pope with his own (the Black Pope) and furthermore called the crusades. Well documented in History books.

Also the Church officially apologized to the Jews a few years back if you remember regarding the Church supporting Hitler in his cause.

[Giaour]

which exactly would you like verified?

Hitler was a Christian?

Also watch PBS documentary called Islam: Empire of Faith Website

Islamic Empire was the Light of the medivial world?

As for the history of the Christian kingdom in the middle ages and the wars which went on you can check Wikipedia

I am sure you will also find the info there on the "Heritics" "Blasphemers" and "Witches" about which even movies have been made one which comes to mind is the Curcible. And furthermore this information is widely known how supressive the Church was which led to the Rennisance.

One simple Example: Barbarosa The Holy Roman Emperor: Self instated emperor, replaced the Pope with his own (the Black Pope) and furthermore called the crusades. Well documented in History books.

Also the Church officially apologized to the Jews a few years back if you remember regarding the Church supporting Hitler in his cause.

Hitler was NOT a Christian.

Anyone can SAY they are a Christian so we have to go by their actions to discern their words.

Hitler did not obey the teachings of Jesus.

Hitler did not bring forth good fruit.

Movies do not have credibility in verifying facts.

The catholic church does not speak for all Christians.

The catholic church is a political entity.

"Steven Runciman's famous three-volume epic, History of the Crusades, or the BBC/A&E documentary, The Crusades, hosted by Terry Jones. Both are terrible history yet wonderfully entertaining."

"With enormous energy, the warriors of Islam struck out against the Christians shortly after Mohammed's death. They were extremely successful. Palestine, Syria, and Egypt

[DaniJ87]

Peace be upon you

The funny part is that though the church claims Islam was spread by the sword they often fail to mention the REAL facts:

- In Europe anyone who did not believe in Christianity was called a Blasphemer and put to death!

This is what they did and brought about war with the Muslims in te first place because Islam was being embraced by people

- In Europe anyone who believed in science and suggested theories to contradict Christianity was labelled a Heretic and killed!

Islam supports science and vice versa, and stopped this persecution against people!

- In Europe women were being killed being labelled witches when they stood up for their rights!

Islam came to liberate them!

Furthermore if we go on in History Hitler A christian..labelled a non Christian? How so when he himself said in his speech:

My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 [baynes]

Further more we talk about the Muslims being a "warring bunch" but lets take a look at the history of the Christian world.

WW I - started and fought by Christians

WW II - Started and fought by Christians

Two of the biggest wars in the history of humanity! Yet the Muslims are a warring bunch?

Even if we look at the history of medivial Europe we see much war all the time. France, Britain, Germany, Spain all looted the countries and cultures around the world making war on them! We only need to look at the Spanish and how they looted the Aztecs to see the reality of that!

Furthermore in the medivial ages we look at the Muslim world vs the Christian world we see that the Muslim world was the light of the world - Baghdad was the scientific capital of the world! And that was during the peak of Islamic empire.

Then came the downfall of Islamic empire after nearly a 1000 years when Muslim nations become fragmented and disunited (which you see in todays world) - When you talk about Saddam Hussein and such people dont even refer to Islam because Saddam hussein was a communist and Islam and communism do not mix!

And finally in conclusion I would say simply one thing. Please watch the PBS documentary: Islam Empire of Faith

And you will see exactly how insignificant the crusades truly were against the Muslim Empire. While the Muslim empire spread across 3 continents the Crucades were being faught over Jeuresulem? 1 Place? And that was the might of the Christian empire that it could not topple one Islamic City! Amazing! The fact is and will remain (hopefully unless they change history books around) that the Crusades were actually Barbaric and totally unholy to defend a Church and doctrine which supported the killing of innocent women as witches, scientists as heritics and apostates as blasphemers!

What people claim to be, and what they are, does not always agree. Hitler was NOT Christian. He was anything but. Just like some other political figures I have heard of.... if claiming to be Christian gets them more support, they do it- no matter how dishonest it is. I mean- look at what he said.. He claims that Christ died so that Hitler could murder Jews? Totally not biblical! Those who do not believe and live by the Bible, are not Christians.

You may as well be saying that the LRA in Uganda is led by a Christian, rather than a cultist! (who is enslaving preteen children (actually, ages 5-14) to be child soldiers... find out about it, and help support the "Invisible Children", at: Invisible Children

What about WW1 and WW2 do you think had to do with Christians? They had to do with living in a corrupt and sinful world. All wars come from that root.

And how do you compare this:

- In Europe women were being killed being labelled witches when they stood up for their rights!

Islam came to liberate them!

to the reality of Islam? Women are oppressed in Islam, and treated like dirt! No- it's not a recent occurrence... it's part of their beliefs.

Islam has always been bloody. It is in their Koran to kill those who refuse to convert to Islam. And the Sharia, (sp?) condemns to death all those who convert from Islam to anything else. Not only that, but these things are STILL practiced- as is the murder/abuse of women who do "something" that doesn't please their men. And the bias of government- women seem to count as 1/3 of a witness in legal issues- so you must have 9 women witnesses, to counter 3 men...

Christian "world" ???? The entire world wasn't Christian any more than it is now. Just because things are labeled in a certain way, doesn't guarantee their contents- much like America being a "Christian nation" doesn't mean that the people here are all Christians.... (heh- far from it- it seems to be a nation pretty closed to God.... especially if you look at some of the nations in the world where Christianity is restricted, where people are so open!)

You have watched to much drivel on PBS... That station is completely liberal, and rather than being called PBS, (Public Broadcasting System), it should be called LBS... (Liberal Broadcasting System).

A lot of what liberals try to pass of as truth is a lie... I mean- they want to rewrite (and are) history books so they don't "offend" people, for goodness sakes! (you can see that here:CA textbook banned words

[aku]

I am sorry neither can the Church nor any other Christian judge an individual who believes in Christ!

When the man himself has proclaimed that Christ is his lord and saviour then that leaves very little for argument!

The church has tried desperately to cover up this fact but the Truth is the truth!

I am just left wondering is he saved because he believed? Or Not?