Koran: Help?

[Guest Jack Joy]

i like muslims. i nuw sum and they are very nise.

wat doz this meen parmanu?

[David from New Bern]

Has anybody on the forum read and researched this "Holy Koran" enough to help me locate and be able to cite textual proof that it is a call to violence in the name of Allah? I have found several hints of that in a brief scan. This is important to my 15year old son to answer intellectually this instructor who is molding yooung minds.

The title of your thread would lead me to think that you were looking for proof that Islam is peaceful but here you ask for proof that Islam is violent. To be fair, shouldn't you be interested in both? If not, you're no better than the teacher.

It sounds like you already had your mind made up on the issue--before proof.

Copper Scroll...thanks for staying true to your MO. Few people stick to a principles of their self-imposed rules of engagement. Perhaps I was not clear enough in my title or the body of my post. But, I was not looking for discussion or argument but information. I have read and studied enough in world history courses to firmly know it as a purely a false religion in theory and in practice. I know it as ignorance to protray Allah as being synonymous with Jehovah. And have read and conversed with muslims to know firsthand many things. I have even been a guest at a Mosque in Raleigh, NC. My post was a request overnight in a rush to find textual addresses for citing. My method of proof has always been to use the literature of the cult itself to undermine its professed truths, not what critics have determined. So in all fairness, I am already convinced of the deception and danger of Islam. And see the contemporary facade "of peaceful people" as a lie of the devil or political compromise. President Bush and our governement or either ignorant or posturing.

I don't think it particularly matters whether you were looking for discussion or mere information. Clearly certain people disagree with your views on Islam and took it upon themselves to provide you with an alternative perspective, and why shouldn't they?

Perhaps because you are 'already convinced of the deception and danger of Islam' i.e. inserting both fingers into your ears and singing LALALALA I AM NOT LISTENING LALALA very loudly?

Whether you were looking for discussion or not it has found you. Therefore I would appreciate it if you would respond to my query: is 'the literature of the cult' really the best source of information? Perhaps (as I suggested) the views of actual Muslims would be a better place to start?

The Muslim is much more faithful to his holy book. Islamic faith is legalistic in form and practice. So there is a faithfulness to the letter of the Koran. Unorthodox belief and practice is anthema. It can get you killed. Just read the headlines or talk to missionaries or miltary personnel serving in these cultures. Of course western practice of this religion is toned down why? Now, that would be an interesting discussion. But the Koran itself is an easy read and pretty direct in what it commands. There is not much room to misread or de-emphasize. I am reading at this moment with highlighter in hand. There is a threat to all who don't embrace and obey its commands.

[Copper Scroll]

Copper Scroll...thanks for staying true to your MO. Few people stick to a principles of their self-imposed rules of engagement. Perhaps I was not clear enough in my title or the body of my post. But, I was not looking for discussion or argument but information.

Information gathered with the intent to discredit or accuse is called dirt. You requested dirt on Islam.

[Scarletprayers]

Copper Scroll...thanks for staying true to your MO. Few people stick to a principles of their self-imposed rules of engagement. Perhaps I was not clear enough in my title or the body of my post. But, I was not looking for discussion or argument but information.

Information gathered with the intent to discredit or accuse is called dirt. You requested dirt on Islam.

.

How about just information to discredit a false religion. Some people actually believe what the Bible says.

[Guest Jack Joy]

Most peeple dont tho i think

[Parmaynu]

The Muslim is much more faithful to his holy book. Islamic faith is legalistic in form and practice. So there is a faithfulness to the letter of the Koran. Unorthodox belief and practice is anthema. It can get you killed. Just read the headlines or talk to missionaries or miltary personnel serving in these cultures. Of course western practice of this religion is toned down why? Now, that would be an interesting discussion. But the Koran itself is an easy read and pretty direct in what it commands. There is not much room to misread or de-emphasize. I am reading at this moment with highlighter in hand. There is a threat to all who don't embrace and obey its commands.

Firstly I appreciate your response. I will not deny that Islam is considerably more legalistic than many religions, but since you are reading 'with highlighter in hand' might I trouble you for some evidence regarding the danger to the lives of unorthadox Muslisms? Hitherto I have neglected to consider this and would therefore appreciate any information you could give me.

[Leonard]

Hi.

The OP seems to ask for proof of or justification for a conclusion he's already arrived at. It's like a president who's already decided that he's going to war but then asks his staff to come up with reasons why the war is a good one. This is not the "fair & balanced" way to approach controversial issues. A better question would have been: What does the Koran say about peace, and what does it say about violence? and where does it say these things? And don't just ask Christians--ask Muslims and secularists too. Acquire a balanced, well-informed perspective--not anti-(fill in the blank) propaganda.

Copper Scroll: There is a much more reliable method to be able to speak intelligently about the Koran; JUST READ IT! Isn't that revolutionary? It is widely available in English translation. I have been encouraging people to read the Koran for years now. Please read it for yourself, then you won't have to rely on ANYONE else's opinion of the book.

[David from New Bern]

The Muslim is much more faithful to his holy book. Islamic faith is legalistic in form and practice. So there is a faithfulness to the letter of the Koran. Unorthodox belief and practice is anthema. It can get you killed. Just read the headlines or talk to missionaries or miltary personnel serving in these cultures. Of course western practice of this religion is toned down why? Now, that would be an interesting discussion. But the Koran itself is an easy read and pretty direct in what it commands. There is not much room to misread or de-emphasize. I am reading at this moment with highlighter in hand. There is a threat to all who don't embrace and obey its commands.

Firstly I appreciate your response. I will not deny that Islam is considerably more legalistic than many religions, but since you are reading 'with highlighter in hand' might I trouble you for some evidence regarding the danger to the lives of unorthadox Muslisms? Hitherto I have neglected to consider this and would therefore appreciate any information you could give me.

Your question is fair...I have had two friends in seminary who converted to Christianity and they currently live in fear for their lives by members of their family. Salman Rushdie is still nervous they tell me. But, for drifting from orthodox thought I have no educated comment other than to say the culture has a tendency to see things very black and white. You have caught me rushing around on a Friday afternoon with family responsibility pressing me. Parmaynu, I will take the challenge to pour over the Qur'an this weekend and hopefully answer your question or admit I don't know or can't find it. Does your question have in basis in some personal experience?

[Copper Scroll]

How about just information to discredit a false religion. Some people actually believe what the Bible says.

The issue is not Islam being a false religion. It's about Islam being a violent religion. The Bible doesn't say that Islam is a violent religion, and the OP doesn't say anything about the Bible--so I don't see what the Bible has to do with any of this.

[Copper Scroll]

Hi.

The OP seems to ask for proof of or justification for a conclusion he's already arrived at. It's like a president who's already decided that he's going to war but then asks his staff to come up with reasons why the war is a good one. This is not the "fair & balanced" way to approach controversial issues. A better question would have been: What does the Koran say about peace, and what does it say about violence? and where does it say these things? And don't just ask Christians--ask Muslims and secularists too. Acquire a balanced, well-informed perspective--not anti-(fill in the blank) propaganda.

Copper Scroll: There is a much more reliable method to be able to speak intelligently about the Koran; JUST READ IT! Isn't that revolutionary?

I guess, but this bit of advice isn't for me--it's for the OP, who (by appearances) isn't as interested in reading all of the Koran as he is in reading those parts that prove it to be the violent religion he "knows" it is.