Scriptural Help Needed...Please :)

[Christian]

So are you saying you believe that no one will be in eternal punishment?

-fallen asleep through Jesus

-dead in Christ shall rise first

notice fallen asleep through Jesus specifically refers to those through Jesus not those who reject Jesus/ fallen asleep is commonly used to refer to those who are dead on Earth not dead as in going to hell

dead IN CHRIST refers to those whose physical wordly bodies are dead but those whose name's are in the book of life (those who followed Jesus)/ it specifically denotes those who are in Christ and through Jesus for a reason, it doesnt say "all the dead" but all the dead in Christ/ and it doesnt say only "all who have fallen asleep" but those who have "fallen asleep through Jesus----think and pray about that

Thank you for your insight brother, but I am having no difficulty with my Scripture comprehension.

It was answers to the questions I posted that I was looking for opinions on.

My original questions as posted were....

"Would you consider "Abrahams bosom" or "Paradise" to be empty?, and that the souls that were there were liberated by Christ and reside in Heaven currently? Also, do you think that these souls return with Christ to be "reunited" with their glorified bodies?"

Your answers would depend on your position about what you feel happens to us (believers) upon drawing our last breath. I would be curious to know yours.

Grace and peace to you brother

in His service

-CC-

[CNU Erik]

So are you saying you believe that no one will be in eternal punishment?

It is a forum on hell, sorry if I misunderstood you.

I believe that when Christ died on the cross that all those that believed in Him and that had their names written in the Book of Life are in heaven now. So to the currently part, yes. I don't think I fully understand the second part, but I believe that the earthly bodies are dead when we take our last breath on Earth and that when we are in heaven our spiritual bodies are revealed and the worldy bodies are left behind for good to decompose. I may have not understood your question correctly though.

[Christian]

I believe that when Christ died on the cross that all those that believed in Him and that had their names written in the Book of Life are in heaven now. So to the currently part, yes. I don't think I fully understand the second part, but I believe that the earthly bodies are dead when we take our last breath on Earth and that when we are in heaven our spiritual bodies are revealed and the worldy bodies are left behind for good to decompose. I may have not understood your question correctly though.

Thank you for your response again brother. The second part of the question stems from something I read recently, which for some reason the light fell on the subject a little differently for me. My prayer does not seem to be allowing me to be settled on it, so I thought I would bring it here and see if my brothers and sisters might give me their thoughts.

From:Dr. David R. Reagan

I learned from God's Word that when those of us who are Christians die, our spirits never lose their consciousness (Phils. 1:23). Instead, our fully conscious spirits are immediately ushered into the presence of Jesus by His holy angels (2 Cor. 5:8).

Our spirits remain in the Lord's presence until He appears for His Church. At that time, He brings our spirits with Him, resurrects our bodies, reunites our spirits with our bodies, and then glorifies our bodies, perfecting them and rendering them eternal (1 Thess 4:13-18).

We return with Him to Heaven in our glorified bodies where we are judged for our works to determine our degrees of rewards (2 Cor. 5:10). When this judgment is completed, we participate in a glorious wedding feast to celebrate the union of Jesus and His Bride, the Church (Rev. 19:7-9).

At the conclusion of the feast, we burst from the heavens with Jesus, returning with Him to the earth in glory (Rev. 19:14). We witness His victory at Armageddon, we shout "Hallelujah!" as He is crowned King of kings and Lord of lords, and we revel in His glory as He begins to reign over all the earth from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem (Zech. 14:1-9; Rev. 19:17-21).

Grace and peace to you brother

in His service

-CC-

[MK202002]

On the flip side of the coin, tell your friend that heaven and earth are temporary also.

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away"-Jesus

Rev. 21- Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

1 John 3:12 waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! 13 But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteosness dwells.

But only righteosness dwells there....

[red77]

Beautiful job, Jade!

The challenge is, how do you communicate to a generation whose motto is "Live for Today" the reality of eternal decisions that they are currently making, whether they realize it or not?

Job 36:26 says that "No one can begin to understand eternity." Eternity can't be mentally comprehended because our minds are finite. God lives in the infinite. How can the finite define or comprehend the infinite? But, eternal judgments are just that. Eternal and never changing. Our judgment of heaven or hell is eternal. Never-ending. No end... ever. Part of hell's description is a "bottomless pit". Can you imagine falling into a hole where you never stopped falling? You would never hit or even see the floor. You just keep falling and falling forever. Look at it. An endless time of falling and no bottom. That's enough to short-circuit anyone's mind.

Imagine the most vile places that ever existed. Concentration camps, intensely over-crowded prisons, etc., Imagine the pungent odors, the dangers, the pain, the mind torture, etc., that accompanies these places! We couldn't imagine living a week in those places, much less any significant amount of time like months, years or decades! Yet, these places would be like a country club compared to what awaits those sentenced to an eternity in hell!

There are several names given to hell in Scripture. Sheol (in the Old Testament), Hades, and the grave are a few names given to the intermediate hell. Gehenna and the Lake of Fire are the names given to the eternal hell.

The intermediate hell, Hades, is the not the eternal hell of people who are outside of salvation. It's a kind of waiting place of torment until the Great White Throne Judgment. After the judgment, the permanent and forever hell is called the Lake of Fire.

"Then I saw a great white throne and the One Who was seated upon it... And the sea delivered up the dead who were in it, death and Hades surrendered the dead in them, and all were tried and their cases determined by what they had done [according to their motives, aims, and works]. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's [name] was not found recorded in the Book of Life, he was hurled into the lake of fire.

-- Revelation 20:11 from the Amplified Bible.

Those in Hades, the intermediate place of torture, were brought before the judgment. Once judgment was complete, those whose names weren't found in the Lamb's Book of Life will be hurled into the Lake of Fire, including the fallen angels, and even Hades itself.

I can still get bewildered by the sickness of this literal hell message...........comparing it to a concentration camp of man made barbarism and evil, good grief..........Do you people really think that God is a sadistic tormentor of helpless beings.......? Where is the compassion in this type of post? where is the love?

You merely use almost loving descriptions of hideous torment for those who erred in this life,

Arguments against: The riich man and lazarus, this is a story, look at the message thats in it, so many seem to use this to support their theory of an eternal hell yet when u read it literally it makes no sense.........if the rich man was being tormented with literal flames would he be capable of asking for water to cool his tongue? Would he not just be screaming in agony instead? If he could yell for something would it not be to have the whole fire quenched....?! Materially the rich man had pretty much everything, lazarus materially had nothing, The rich man could have shared his wealth and shown compassion but chose not to do so.....epilogue: Lazarus who had a life of misery gains happiness, the rich man who had wealth but a cold heart gains misery, is this not a story of how we should treat each other as human beings? with love and compassion, if we dont we reap consequences but its not a literal hell........

Where does it say that the lake of fire is actually hell......? I've spoke with many on the subject but this is the first time I've heard it referred to as such......the lake of fire is only mentioned in revelation as far as I'm aware and hell is never referred to as such anywhere else in the bible.......in fact unless I'm mistaken there isn't actually a passage where hell is said to be eternal........It says death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.............on this note how many read revelation literally..........? Most people seem to admit that the whole chapter makes extensive use of metaphor and symbolism yet the lake of fire suddenly becomes a literal place.........can someone explain how you 'throw death' into something......?! its intangible, its not an object you can pick up and throw........so wouldnt this be metaphor...........?

Also could anyone explain why the original greek word 'aionios' was translated as meaning eternal when its primary definition means 'age enduring' or 'lasting of an age'....? Its something that some bibles have in their translation as they go with the primary definition, if the original greek was to mean eternal then the word in its primary definition to convey that would be 'aidios' apparently......

Finally are God's ways so clear to everyone that they know exactly what he will do to all of his creations before he's actually done it? Love and compassion are sadly lacking from what I've seen here so far, I believe God's ways are unfathomable but i Do believe that his mercy,grace and love dwarfs our own and that his mercy and compassion is so much wider than those views held here would have me belive, its no wonder that so many become disillussioned with the church and christianity with this type of hideous doctrine where the love and light of the message gets lost amidst barbarism............as far as I'm concerned and after being in an evangelical church at one point which quite frankly sickened me - I believe the OP's friend is the one with the truth, its funny how his belief portrays an all loving merciful God whereas this one portrays a torturing unforgiving tyrant........

[Guest jckduboise]

I believe that when Christ died on the cross that all those that believed in Him and that had their names written in the Book of Life are in heaven now. So to the currently part, yes. I don't think I fully understand the second part, but I believe that the earthly bodies are dead when we take our last breath on Earth and that when we are in heaven our spiritual bodies are revealed and the worldy bodies are left behind for good to decompose. I may have not understood your question correctly though.

Thank you for your response again brother. The second part of the question stems from something I read recently, which for some reason the light fell on the subject a little differently for me. My prayer does not seem to be allowing me to be settled on it, so I thought I would bring it here and see if my brothers and sisters might give me their thoughts.

From:Dr. David R. Reagan

I learned from God's Word that when those of us who are Christians die, our spirits never lose their consciousness (Phils. 1:23). Instead, our fully conscious spirits are immediately ushered into the presence of Jesus by His holy angels (2 Cor. 5:8).

Our spirits remain in the Lord's presence until He appears for His Church. At that time, He brings our spirits with Him, resurrects our bodies, reunites our spirits with our bodies, and then glorifies our bodies, perfecting them and rendering them eternal (1 Thess 4:13-18).

We return with Him to Heaven in our glorified bodies where we are judged for our works to determine our degrees of rewards (2 Cor. 5:10). When this judgment is completed, we participate in a glorious wedding feast to celebrate the union of Jesus and His Bride, the Church (Rev. 19:7-9).

At the conclusion of the feast, we burst from the heavens with Jesus, returning with Him to the earth in glory (Rev. 19:14). We witness His victory at Armageddon, we shout "Hallelujah!" as He is crowned King of kings and Lord of lords, and we revel in His glory as He begins to reign over all the earth from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem (Zech. 14:1-9; Rev. 19:17-21).

Grace and peace to you brother

in His service

-CC-

This is beautifull CC...this reminds me of another first last and last first...when God created man He created his body first then breathed the Spirit of Life into man..body first spirit last, in reverse it will be spirit first, body last....How awesome!!!!!

God IS good