What is proper attire for public worship?

[Gerioke]

We should all be wearing tunics and fig leaves.

[SwordFish]

Hey Eve where did you put the needle and thread at?

[David from New Bern]

Hey Eve where did you put the needle and thread at?

[David from New Bern]

We should all be wearing tunics and fig leaves.

It would be an improvement and more modest I might add than many of today's fashions.

I don't know, have you seen the size of fig leaves these days...

[nanasimmons]

In the end we will all loose our pants, and we will all be wearing robes again....

And we know who will be "wearing the pants" in that house!

[hebrews_beauty]

RESPONSE: It is not the same thing. There is nothing in the Bible that says it is an abomination to wear sandles, or for that matter flip flops as you said you like to wear. I am speaking of a sin issue. How would you feel if a man walked into a congregation wearing an evening gown? Would you compare that to Jesus wearing sandals?

There is nothing in the Bible that indicates it is sinful for a woman to wear pants, or for a man to wear a skirt or dress. The Bible does indicate, however, that it is sinful for a man to dress like a woman and vice versa (Deut. 22:5). Is a man dressed as a woman by wearing a skirt or dress? In American culture, usually yes, though in other cultures no. Is a woman dressed as a man by wearing jeans or pants? In American culture, no, though in other cultures yes. Since there is no specific commandment in scripture indicating that females shouldn't wear pants, and since jeans are not specifically masculine or feminine in our culture, then my conclusion is that there is nothing "sinful" about a woman wearing jeans. I think the Holy Spirit would have told me by now if there was.

RESPONSE: I don't look at the Bible like that. God is the same yesterday, today and forever. If it was wrong for a woman to have short hair then, it still is, just as it is wrong for a man to have long hair. The Bible says all scripture is given by inspiration of God. The way you put it, Paul simply wrote this letter based on personal opinions. If that is the case, the Bible is no different than any other piece of Christian literature.

I'm not saying it was merely Paul's opinion; it was certainly inspired by the Spirit. However, it was given to correct a problem experienced culturally at that time. The issue does not exist for believers today, and therefore does not warrant strict adherence for Christians today.

As a woman, I cut my hair off in obedience to God. God put it on my heart to donate my hair to Locks of Love, an organization that makes wigs for children with long term hair loss. But God wouldn't have motivated me to do that if it were sinful or contrary to His will. Case in point.

RESPONSE: I can go along with cultural changes only when they are not violating God's Word. The Bible supercedes the culture. One of the cultural changes that stands out to me is the filthy language. There was a time where it was unusual to hear people spewing out obscenities in a normal conversation, but now it is normal. Am I to be sensitive to the culture and accept people coming to church using four letter words in every sentence? Are they to be welcomed in as leaders in the church? Some cultural changes are ok, but most that I have observed have been for the worse.

Oh, I agree with you on this. I'm not saying all cultural changes are good or right, or that we should even accept them. I was only trying to say that some things Christians turn into issues, are not really issues of anything but a cultural conflict or traditional/contemporary conflict, in which case we should try to be sensitive and try to understand where another person or group is coming from.

Peace.

[nebula]

There is no way I can prove or disprove anything written in the book you mentioned because I didn't live back then. I am very skeptical of such things.

Ah - rejecting evidence that doesn't agree with your opinion.

Good one!

That being the case, my opinion remains the same that pants do pertain to men and dresses to women. I would also say that pantihose and tights pertain to women.

Why? Based on what evidence?

I am not going to say your source, "the on-line encyclopedia" is wrong, I just don't trust it so I don't accept it.

Well, hey, if you can find contrary information, I'm all ears.

As I said starting out, my mind is already made up on this issue. I have only been continuing in this debate to give the opposing side to the viewpoint I consider wrong.

O brother.

[tah]

Our culture has made huge changes in what is acceptable business attire and what people wear even to formal gatherings. Church has also followed suit with a more generally relaxed dress code. There was an adjustment period abut 20 years ago in most churches that reflected the difference between Sunday morning (formal), Sunday night (more relaxed), and Wednesday night (super casual). Now you can't find any unspoken rules. Some applaud this as a new openness in church, and others see it as a lack of reverence for the house of God. Some see it as a spiritual issue. Is this only a generational problem? Is it immaturity to embrace or not embrace this change in our culture? This question is prompted from a real life scenario recently

I invited a former member of our church to return to our church to share his musical talent. He is now a youth minister in a neighboring town. When he came he was dressed in jeans and a dress shirt. Dressed perhaps like 30-40% of the congregation gathered on a Sunday morning in our church. However he was wearing flip flops for shoes, and when it came time to perform he did so barefooted. An older member of my church said something about this a week latter in a private meeting. I noticed the flip flops but hadn't noticed the barefeet. I had no comment, because it caught me off guard. The brother in question is youthful and talented which lends itself sometimes to push the buttons of traditionalism. My first thought but unexpressed was that he was demonstrating that he was on holy ground in his worship. My concerned member thought it was lack of respect fr the pulpit and for the pastor. I know as the pastor I'm one of maybe 2 or three who wear a tie Sunday. What is discernment on this matter for our generation?

Something just crossed my mind about this..

Did you ask the guy why he chose to wear flip flops to church?

There is nothing quite like the "horses mouth" on issues..

I have a foot problem and sometimes my foot is so in pain that I cannot wear shoes..

Does he have a foot problem..

Is all this debate on pants because someone may have a problem with gout?

You said he likes to "push tradition" so did he do it out of rebellion?

we cannot know another persons mind if we do not ask..

Why not ask ..and of course when you find out let us know..

I am curious what the persons answer is..

Edited April 24, 2006 by tah

[nebula]

An on-line commentary is not adequate evidence of anything. Evidence would be physical proof. It comes down to my having to accept or reject that the author knows what he or she is talking about and I reject it. I don't know what evidence I can or cannot dig up, but supposing I found something that contradicted the on-line encyclopedia? How could you trust it? You would pick and choose what you wanted to believe.

It's not an on-line commentary, it's an encyclopedia.

And I am serious, if you can find evidence that pants are exclusive men's garments I'll listen. So far, you haven't given any.

Where is your evidence?

[SwordFish]

All I know is in this very nation of ours girls didn't wear pants at all until I was at the end of my fifth grade year and by the sixth grade the girls started wearing pants. Little girls were girls once upon a time and little boys were little boys once upon a time and you knew which was a girl and which was a boy by their clothing and hair length no guessing game.

To me that is not a bad thing to be able to tell a noticeable difference between the sexes. There is no distortions between the sexes so guys will be drawn to girls like it should be instead of girl being drawn to another girl and guy drawn to another guy and that is what is going on.

I think women and men should be very conscious when it comes to being the role models for young children and young teenagers to make sure there remains a difference between the sexes. In saying this I do not think this would make a women any stronger or weaker for being all feminine. A woman shouldn't go against her own nature in whom she was created to be nor the man he should not go against his own nature in whom he was created to be.

Role reversals are going on today whether the church wants to see it or not. Men are staying home now raising the kids and keeping house they call them stay at home fathers and in the movie it was Mr. mom you get the picture this is strickly against God word and it's teachings for the man. On the flip side of the coin women are out working and bringing in the daily provision chopping off their hair and taking on the man's role in the home which is again role reversal this is incorrect and unbiblical behavior.

They play this same role reversals in the homosexual couples today. In their ungodly perversion one will always play the weaker vessel in the relationship while the other takes the more masculine side in the relationship this is also incorrect and unbiblical behavior.

The very perversion itself show us that something has been taken and twisted around else there would be no perversion at all in homosexuality, transvest dykes, or the role reversals in families. So their is a problem and if one wants to ignore the role in which they play in this twisting of things then I should hope you would at least stop take a moment and consider how that your very mannerism as a man or a woman will affect the next generation who in most cases the next generation seems to be more wicked than the one prior to it.

What role models are modeled will indeed shape the next generation. So instead of proving everything one way or another would you personally want to be responsible to leading someone in a perverted way by the way you dress.

I personally think also that alot of the twisting and role reversal in our land is due to single parents who are having to raise children alone not because the one parent is doing anything wrong but because the child does not have both sexes in the home in which to get a balanced view of the roles. Well just my 10 cents worth.

Swordfish