Patriotism? Or elitism?

[apothanein kerdos]

In the case of ILLEGAL immigration, the problem is the ILLEGALITY of what is occuring and the negative consequences it is having on our country.

I was stating that the laws behind immigration deal with racism. Even the way we treat legal citizens who have migrated is appauling. Let's face it, it's socially acceptable to have bigotry towards hispanics. That was, afterall, the original point of the OP.

[nebula]

Even the way we treat legal citizens who have migrated is appauling.

Yeah - people don't like people who are different from them. "Southerners" don't like "Yanks," Middle and upper class people don't like "rednecks", "homies" don't like "preppies", ya-da, ya-da, ya-da.

We can throw around the "racism" card all we want, but it does not deal with the real issues of pride, arrogance, fear and hatred that are behind the "label" of "skin color" (or culture).

And the whole problem with aiding illegal immigrants is that you are saying, "I don't agree with the law; therefore, I can break it."

The issue is too sticky to treat racism as the core issue or the core problem.

There's a lot of politics as well.

And the other side hasn't been too respectful of Americans as well, if you know what I mean.

[apothanein kerdos]

Even the way we treat legal citizens who have migrated is appauling.

Yeah - people don't like people who are different from them. "Southerners" don't like "Yanks," Middle and upper class people don't like "rednecks", "homies" don't like "preppies", ya-da, ya-da, ya-da.

We can throw around the "racism" card all we want, but it does not deal with the real issues of pride, arrogance, fear and hatred that are behind the "label" of "skin color" (or culture).

And the whole problem with aiding illegal immigrants is that you are saying, "I don't agree with the law; therefore, I can break it."

The issue is too sticky to treat racism as the core issue or the core problem.

There's a lot of politics as well.

And the other side hasn't been too respectful of Americans as well, if you know what I mean.

Then by your definition, was it legitimate to violate laws that caused segregation? How about laws that aided slave owners?

The fact is, when a law is based on racist notions...or as you wish to call it "pride," "arrogance," "fear," etc., it should be broken or at least written in such a way as to avoid these downfalls. At the same time, you approach this with such a ho-hum attitude as if though to say it doesn't matter that even legal immigrants are treated in such a demeaning way. People actually hate other races based upon nothing else than it is a race. This is not uncommon in that, being made in the image of God, fallen man will always try to segregate against His image. Whils tpride and everything else comes into play, there are times where people simply hate a person because of the color of his or her skin.

Regardless, whatever you want to call it, racism, pride, etc., it's sin....and you are blatantly admitting that our actions towards Mexico have been sinful. Now,should we submit or support laws that are based upon sinful notions? This is the same as endorsing sin. The answer is a blatant no.

[O'Dannyboy]

Punish the companies that hire illegals. Abolish instant citizenship upon birth and grant citizenship only to chilren of U.S. citizens. This is not to say that those shildren that are already here should have their citizenships revoked, only that all future children born in the U.S. should only be granted citizenship based on they parents status. Secure the borders at all costs. Worry about the rest later. Untill we can stop them from comming in illegally, nothing we do or decide will be of any consequence. My biggest concern is that while you guys figure out what to do with those that are here, there are millions more preparing to head this direction with no intention of going through the immigration process. We need to send a clear message that the illegal way is not an option at all.

From my point of view, the idea that this is completely about race is preposterous. I know for me it have nothing to do with race. Now, there are some, simply because they are of another race, that will insist my choice is based on race, but they would be wrong. I desire to ALL immigration under control and to see our economy become competitive in the world markets. I don't know about you but I am tired of seeing our jobs go over seas, only to have the few jobs that remain taken away by those who can afford to work for less than our poorest are willing to accept. All the while, our leaders are saying we need higher education standards while we watch the cost of secondary education go higher and higher. What people fail to see is that our middle class is dissapearing. A couple more decades and we will be reduced to a nation of those who wear suits and the rest who exist to serve them. Sound familiar?

[apothanein kerdos]

Punish the companies that hire illegals. Abolish instant citizenship upon birth and grant citizenship only to chilren of U.S. citizens. This is not to say that those shildren that are already here should have their citizenships revoked, only that all future children born in the U.S. should only be granted citizenship based on they parents status. Secure the borders at all costs. Worry about the rest later. Untill we can stop them from comming in illegally, nothing we do or decide will be of any consequence. My biggest concern is that while you guys figure out what to do with those that are here, there are millions more preparing to head this direction with no intention of going through the immigration process. We need to send a clear message that the illegal way is not an option at all.

From my point of view, the idea that this is completely about race is preposterous. I know for me it have nothing to do with race. Now, there are some, simply because they are of another race, that will insist my choice is based on race, but they would be wrong. I desire to ALL immigration under control and to see our economy become competitive in the world markets. I don't know about you but I am tired of seeing our jobs go over seas, only to have the few jobs that remain taken away by those who can afford to work for less than our poorest are willing to accept. All the while, our leaders are saying we need higher education standards while we watch the cost of secondary education go higher and higher. What people fail to see is that our middle class is dissapearing. A couple more decades and we will be reduced to a nation of those who wear suits and the rest who exist to serve them. Sound familiar?

*sigh*

Could you possibly re-read, because none of what you said even come close to applying to this topic. Not a single word.

[Gerioke]

Punish the companies that hire illegals. Abolish instant citizenship upon birth and grant citizenship only to chilren of U.S. citizens. This is not to say that those shildren that are already here should have their citizenships revoked, only that all future children born in the U.S. should only be granted citizenship based on they parents status. Secure the borders at all costs. Worry about the rest later. Untill we can stop them from comming in illegally, nothing we do or decide will be of any consequence. My biggest concern is that while you guys figure out what to do with those that are here, there are millions more preparing to head this direction with no intention of going through the immigration process. We need to send a clear message that the illegal way is not an option at all.

From my point of view, the idea that this is completely about race is preposterous. I know for me it have nothing to do with race. Now, there are some, simply because they are of another race, that will insist my choice is based on race, but they would be wrong. I desire to ALL immigration under control and to see our economy become competitive in the world markets. I don't know about you but I am tired of seeing our jobs go over seas, only to have the few jobs that remain taken away by those who can afford to work for less than our poorest are willing to accept. All the while, our leaders are saying we need higher education standards while we watch the cost of secondary education go higher and higher. What people fail to see is that our middle class is dissapearing. A couple more decades and we will be reduced to a nation of those who wear suits and the rest who exist to serve them. Sound familiar?

*sigh*

Could you possibly re-read, because none of what you said even come close to applying to this topic. Not a single word.

I think his last sentence applies. It's not just Mexicans who are being snubbed. Check out the homeless situations in any city and you will find lots of whites, blacks reds and so on. It's rich vs poor and they are slowly euthanizing the poor with crapy food and polluted water. It's funny how the stuff that's really good for you cost about 1/3 more to purchase than the stuff that's chalked full of chemicals? Some of you may say "conspiracy theory" but it's easy enough to verify. Take a box of KD and do a bit of reaearch on the individual ingredients.

[nebula]

It's rich vs poor . . . .

I agree.

SJ - the example you gave and tagged as "racism", I saw "income level." And that is why I objected.

[nebula]

Thought I'd add -

I do not disagree that policies need reforming. In fact, in my untrained opinion, the suggestions you gave are not a bad idea.

I just am not convinced that any particular races were targeted by the immigration fees.