SCIENCE!!!

[Guest Troyboy!!!]

I'm a christian, but right now, I'm questioning it. I was even thinking about being a pastor for a bit, but now, I'm finding tons of things that support an antichristian view almsot without flaw. What do i do? I mean, I'm a very scientific person, and very intellectual if you will, so I'm looking for some 'proof' of God's existence. HELP ME! I know they say live by faith and not by sight, but please help, cuz im finding it hard to........

[nebula]

Are you the same Troyboy who posted this? Click here

[WayneB]

I'm a christian, but right now, I'm questioning it. I was even thinking about being a pastor for a bit, but now, I'm finding tons of things that support an antichristian view almsot without flaw. What do i do? I mean, I'm a very scientific person, and very intellectual if you will, so I'm looking for some 'proof' of God's existence. HELP ME! I know they say live by faith and not by sight, but please help, cuz im finding it hard to........

Troyboy, if you seek physical PROOF, you won't find it friend. There is "proof" through eye-witness recorded events, such as 1 Cor 15:3-6, but then, we are getting ahead of ourselves. God won't "prove" Himself to you anymore than He already has. He has given us His creation as the first proof, then His Scripture, various Prophets and more recently, His Holy Spirit as more proof. He fullfilled Scripture through His Son. It's like what Paul told the Romans... we have NO excuse NOT to know HIM.

Once, I considered myself an intellectual. I am well-educated (my wife may not agree) and experienced accelerated career growth at an early age. By worldly standards, I am quite successful in business with degrees in Mathmatics and Engineering. I share that with you to emphasize that I too am the type who wants proof and answers to hard questions. I question everything...my favorite word as a young person (many years ago) was "why".

I believe in logic and expect all the pieces to fit perfect. Well, they don't always. Why? 'cause we often don't have the right motive at heart and usually don't know the right questions to ask.

Troy, anything I say to you can be rebutted as well as anything an un-believer says to me, I can rebut. I won't fall into that trap here. Simply, I ask you to consider... where do we go for TRUTH? Who do we believe? What do we believe? Why do we believe? Seek with your whole heart and soul and you will find God's TRUTH...but you have to have the right motive.

Know this. Simply... growing your FAITH in Jesus Christ is a process.

I first approached and thought through the existence of God, the Creator of all things. For me, it took greater faith to believe that the world around me was just here by chance. In other words, I pondered deep and became convinced of an intellegent design longggg before the phrase was coined. My heart was hungry and my mind was truly open.

Then I left well enough alone for a few years until one day, it wasn't enough anymore. I began to realize that if there was a Creator, then He would have a purpose. I came to believe that He would have revealed His character to His creation AND that He would want to have a personal relationship with His creation. Otherwise, why create? It just doesn't make sense to create and not enjoy it.

Well, HE did just that. God interacted with His creation from the very beginning and revealed Himself to His creation as recorded in His Word. Yup...His Word and that was the 3rd "revelation" I had. Yes, God would have provided a verbal & written history for His creation and would have preserved it. It is found in Scripture, what we call the Bible. Now many will argue that the Bible is just a book and point out what they believe to be contradictions (they seek reasons not to believe rather than seek TRUTH). Always, the problem is not with the message but in our translation of the message, which is the reason for so many denominations and understandings. Regardless, His Word as expressed in the Bible and revealed by His Holy Spirit is the ONE & ONLY source of TRUTH. Of that, I have NO doubts.

So, once I accepted the existence of an Intellegent Creator and recognized that HE wants to have a relationship with me, the pieces began to fall into place until one day, I met my Redeemer through reading His Word and seeking His face.

Enough for now. What you truly need to search out FIRST and foremost is the condition of your heart. Do you really seek the TRUTH or are you looking for reasons to maintain a control of your destiny, which is not really yours to begin with. You have to build ground-up establishing a STRONG foundation that will not wash away with each passing storm. Start building today! Stop making sand castles and find good solid ground and begin building.

Oh, by the way. It was many years until I finally accepted Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior and since then, I have been building my FAITH on solid rock one stone at a time. A process... and one that has less to do with intellectualism and more to do with relationship.

May the Lord Bless you richly,

Wayne

[Guest Troyboy!!!]

Yes that's me. I want to believe so bad. Heck, i spend so much time researching all of this stuff, using my own time to find more stuff out about God and christianity, and stuff that backs it up, but as a research more and more indepth, I find more and more stuff against the bible that makes no sense whatsoever. All christians know what I mean. Like, how does birds come befoer mamals in creation, and how does all of the bodies from the flood nto be there as fossils as a testimony of what has happend. There is research being done like, there is a part of the brain taht acutaly works veyr hard when in prayer, and that some scientists have determined that it is human nature to believe in a God. I mean, whats up with all of the other Gods and stuff from like South America and little tribes in Brazil. surely there has to be something in our brains and human nature that wants us to believe in a god... Ok, im rambling now sorry. Neway, you get my drift? It's so hard to believe in something I can't see. Ive had a really strong faith up until a few weeks ago, when I started learning a lot of this stuff. I seriously want to believe so bad, but I'm having trouble doing it. I realy do want a purpose in life and a reason why I'm here, but its all such an argument now adays. you ask anyone "hey, whys christianity false" (asking an athiest) and theyll give you reasons forever. but if you ask a christian, "whys christianity true?" and theyll be just like, "well, ya just kinda know." A lot of Christians are leading a blind faith and not challenging themselves with any of these scieintific points. And sooner or later, their faith is going to be questioned as mine is now, and they are going to be in a big rut just like I am now.

I've been on this computer for the past few weeks practically nonstop trying to improve my faith. Ive been praying to God so much now, and hes answering them, but like I ask myself, what if its all just coincidence. Ive been reading the bible so much to improve my knowledge on all of this, but no matter what, whatever i think i know, someone will bash it down with some kind of athiest fact and it just kills me. Uuuuggggggg

[WayneB]

Troy,

ONE question at a time...

You asked about South America. I grew up in South America. Quito, Ecuador to be exact.

Ya' want a challenge for your heart & mind?

Get a copy of "Spirit of the Rainforest: A Yanomamo Shaman's Story" by Mark Andrew Ritchie. You can get it on Amazon.com.

Read it and maybe your question regarding the existence of "gods" vs. the One & Only Creator God in areas cut off from our world civilization may be answered.

Troy, my advice? BACK away from your computer. Stop your "google" searches. Pray hard. Seek God. Read HIS Word for your YOURSELF without anybody else's interpretation. Seek TRUTH rather than contradiction. Look for examples of FAITH (like you will find in the book I recommended) and ask yourself, what did these people experience that led them to seek the One & Only God of ALL creation.

It's a place to start.

What you have done is built your faith on shifting sand [Matthew 7:24-29] and your faith is beginning to wash away. Go back to the beginning buddy and this time, build on ROCK and establish a firm foundation.

God Bless,

Wayne

Edited May 4, 2006 by Wayne B.

[WayneB]

...but if you ask a christian, "whys christianity true?" and theyll be just like, "well, ya just kinda know." A lot of Christians are leading a blind faith and not challenging themselves with any of these scieintific points. And sooner or later, their faith is going to be questioned as mine is now, and they are going to be in a big rut just like I am now.

That's not really true Troy. Maybe you just haven't asked the right questions or asked the right believers?

[rfw]

Pro 18:17 The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

One of the problems in dealing with those who deny God is that they are rarely interested in the whole truth, only that which supports their cause. You write that you have questions which seemed to be answered without the need for God, but that's only one side of the story, and a very shaky side at that. To answer many of your questions from a Christian perspective, I suggest you check out ICR. They give very good explanations you won't find in the secular press.

Josh McDowell's book Evidence That Demands a Verdict has recently been revised, and is well worth the money. Another book that many have found helpful is Who Moved the Stone.

I don't know the author's name, just a little of his story. He was an atheist attorney who decided to attack Christianity through all the "errors" in the Bible everyone he knew had told him were there. But as he researched and studied, he discovered to his surprise that the evidence was all on the side of the Scripture.

When Banks hire new tellers, they train them to recognize counterfeit money not by showing them fake bills but having them study real money. Then when the fakes come along, it stands out by comparison. So study what's real and true. Find a pastor or believing friend who can help you walk in the light. Questions aren't bad or wrong. Everybody has questions at one time or another. Just remember that a God smart enough to make everything that is out of nothing is much smarter than those trying to explain His universe. And however clever those secularist scientists are, no one ever talks about how "good" they are. But God? Consider this:

Psa 34:8 Taste and see that the LORD is good. How happy is the man who takes refuge in Him!

[nebula]

Like, how does birds come befoer mamals in creation, and how does all of the bodies from the flood nto be there as fossils as a testimony of what has happend.

OK, Troy - umm rather than trying to explain to you how I have dealt with this (I am a science major, too!), I'd like to direct you to the American Scientific Affiliation - - "(ASA) is a fellowship of men and women in science and disciplines that relate to science who share a common fidelity to the Word of God and a commitment to integrity in the practice of science." There you will discover a mixture of ideas as to how different Christians in the sciences have dealt with this question. Seeing alternatives from the Christian perspective might help you out.

Here might be a good place to start.

There is research being done like, there is a part of the brain taht acutaly works veyr hard when in prayer, and that some scientists have determined that it is human nature to believe in a God. I mean, whats up with all of the other Gods and stuff from like South America and little tribes in Brazil. surely there has to be something in our brains and human nature that wants us to believe in a god... Ok, im rambling now sorry. Neway, you get my drift?

Well, think of it this way - there's a part of your brain that works hard when you are contemplating, there is an area that works hard when you are paying attention to what you are seeing and another part when you are concentrating on listening. Basically, the brain is designed to receive input from our senses, process that information, and then output the results, correct? So, would it not make sense, then, to have a part of the brain meant for inputing and outputing our interaction with the spiritual realm?

In terms of evolution, why would the brains evolve an area to deal with something that doesn't exist?

It's so hard to believe in something I can't see. Ive had a really strong faith up until a few weeks ago, when I started learning a lot of this stuff. I seriously want to believe so bad, but I'm having trouble doing it. I realy do want a purpose in life and a reason why I'm here, but its all such an argument now adays.

I've been through stages like this.

You know, have you heard of the group Third Day? They have an interesting song that at least speaks to me with regard to what I've gone through.

You said all who follow You would find

Comfort and pain, blessings in hard times

Were I to leave, where else would I go?

The words of life and of truth You hold.

All I want is love

I confess to this

I will take it all

All You have to give

How great the love lavished upon us

That we might be the children of God

All I want is love

I confess to this

I will take it all

All You have to give

Even when Jesus walked this planet, people who once followed Him decided to reject Him because He did not turn out to be what they wanted Him to be.

It is unfortunate, though, that the Bible was written before the invention of science (and yes, science is an invention - and no, it didn't begin with Aristotle - by today's standards he was a philosopher - that's why he got everything wrong - LOL!). This is why it is difficult to find answers to science in the Bible.

I do like that quote I put in my signature line. Here's the full quote:

"Evangelicalism may go down in history as the group that ardently defended the truth of Scripture while ignoring most of its content. The Bible is not an owner

[nebula]

Another good book to read is Rachel's Tears

It is the story of Rachel Scott, one of the Columbine teenagers, probably the first one killed - and as it was discovered later was specifically targeted because of her faith. After she had already been shot, one of the guys (who knew her from drama class) lifted her head by her hair and said, "Do you still believe in God?" She answered, "You know that I do." He replied, "Then go be with Him," and then shot her in the head.

Her family later found her journals, and suprisingly discovered that the Lord had been preparing her for this day. Interestingly, this picture here was just drawn 10-20 minutes before she was murdered. There's a whole interesting story behind this picture, especially how it relates to another picture she drew sometime earlier. Also note, there are 13 tears falling over the Columbijne flower, just as there were 13 people who died that day at the school. Coincidence? Well, you need to read the story. Again, there's a whole story that goes with that picture.

And there's a whole story of her walk with God in her own words from her journals.

Again, I highly recommend this book.

[Guest KJLloyd]

Troy, Wayne B has provided a very eloquent and wisdom filled couple of posts. I completely understand your desire for "intellectual" fullfillment as it relates to strengthening your faith. Although I think Wayne is right to suggest that you back away from the computer and pray to the Lord, when you do come back to it, try to utilize sites that reinforce Christianity and your faith, not necessarily challenge it.

I have a few that I highly recommend. Jesusfactorfiction.com is an excellent site with movie shorts of phd's, scholars, historians, archeologists and lawyers who give very strong intellectual testimony to the story of Christ/God.

The following link is to a debate between Dr. William Lane Craig and Quentin Smith. The topic: Does God Exist? I think you may find this an interesting one. Dare I say it might even be as "intellectually" close to "proving" God as we humans can come.

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/billcraig/d..._harvard00.html

This next apologetics site was made by an ex police officer who says he was called to address the many questions of skeptics, cynics, seekers, all perspectives. The interactions are very interesting.

http://www.behindthebadge.net/apologetics/index.html

God bless you on your journey,

--Kurt