Trinity Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 92 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,244 Content Per Day: 0.31 Reputation: 63 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 I have never heard a bible verse that states that you cannot leave and take a break from him till he gets his act together.... Divorce? No. Part-time separation? Yes. If he is putting your kids in danger its best to leave for a little while or have him leave for a little while-(i.e. rehabilitation)... While you did agree into this relationship your kids didn't, it isn't fare for them to be abused... I say no to divorce but ok to part time separation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted May 6, 2006 Share Posted May 6, 2006 Putting aside the Biblical for a moment. This man has a disease that needs intervention. There are several programs in every community to provide a safe place for him to get sober and then they will teach him how to be sober. Intervention is often necessary as well as family counseling because the reality is the man is the drinker but every one in the family is effected making this issue a family disease. The wife must put her foot down and deny him taking the children with him if he is drinking or drunk. If he insists get the police involved. Nothing is going to change for this man if he is not forced to pay consequences for his actions. Excluding divorce. The children most likely love their father and if there is a way for the family to be mended then it should. If this man is not beating the wife or the children then don't leave him. If he is being verbally abusive when drinking or when he needs a drink take the children and go somewhere safe until the he is sober. Too many times we look for reasons to break our contract with the Lord regarding our marriages. Some things are mendable while others are not. If this husband has been faithful then this wife should not leave him. If he hasn't physically abandoned this wife she should not abandon him. Stick it out, this is a fixable situation from what I have read. This wife should not be looking for ways to leave her husband and divorce him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 428 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 Where there is alcohol abuse in a marriage, often the spouse and children suffer for years in silence in the cycle of abuse. There is verbal abuse, aggression, financial instability and lots more. I had to counsel a lady recently who had been advised by her pastor that it was God's will for her to remain in her marriage despite the problems she was experiencing as a result of alcohol. Her husband was Christian, attending church although irregularly, got drunk on a regular basis, insisted on driving under the influence often with her three minor children in the car and was verbally abusive of her in front of the children and sometimes in public and at her place of employment. Is the pastor correct in his counsel? I would disagree with the pastor's counsel and think Tah and Trinity are correct . . . separation is acceptable for women when circumstances with their husband become hazardous. 1Co 7:10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: 11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.The scriptures do prohibit divorce saving the cause of adultery . . . however, for the sake preservation a wife may depart . . . but cannot divorce or remarry since such behavior does not constitute grounds for divorce. Sometime the mere utilization of this loophole of God's mercy and grace for sisters in the Lord is enough to slap their husbands into aggressively seeking a true and lasting remedy for their problems. However, I do not see where this biblically permitted loophole is extended to husbands in the reversed situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordFish Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 104 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 (edited) Hello blindseeker, I think that it would be the Lord's will if this case was in reverse and the women was threatening the man with harm epecially in dangerous situations it is better to seperate and be in safety than wait before it is to late and the woman hurts you. G-d is concerned for men as well as for the women. Even though the bible does not speak in this regards as you have said and I don't know of any scriptures right off hand. It is in using wisdom that we know this to be true as well for men in bad situations with their wives. sometimes the wives need serious help and intervention and the man need not bear the load and burden of this on his shoulders entirely. seperating for a time of healing is much better solution than getting hurt and put in harms way while working out problems if possible. Just because men are men and head of the home does in no way mean they have to suffer abuse in any way. blessings Edited May 6, 2006 by SwordFish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlindSeeker Posted May 6, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 69 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,073 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 428 Days Won: 5 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2006 Hello blindseeker, I think that it would be the Lord's will if this case was in reverse and the women was threatening the man with harm epecially in dangerous situations it is better to seperate and be in safety than wait before it is to late and the woman hurts you. G-d is concerned for men as well as for the women. Even though the bible does not speak in this regards as you have said and I don't know of any scriptures right off hand. It is in using wisdom that we know this to be true as well for men in bad situations with their wives. sometimes the wives need serious help and intervention and the man need not bear the load and burden of this on his shoulders entirely. seperating for a time of healing is much better solution than getting hurt and put in harms way while working out problems if possible. Just because men are men and head of the home does in no way mean they have to suffer abuse in any way. blessings Greetings SwordFish, Perhaps you are correct. While writing my post I was mindful that it was a biblical loophole for women in general, not just women in the Lord. I would agree with you wholeheartedly regarding unbelieving husbands in the reverse situation. However, since our Lord was abused and beaten at the hands of humanity yet endured the cross, I feel a believing husband would actually be adorning the doctrine of Christ love for the Church if he faithfully persevered for his relationship with his wife. Therefore, with believing husbands I believe such endurance would actually be utilized to a great effectiveness by the Holy Spirit regardless the temporal pain or loss he might experience. Consider also the words of Peter regarding servants with forward masters . . . and wives to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayin jade Posted May 7, 2006 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 44 Topic Count: 6,178 Topics Per Day: 0.87 Content Count: 43,799 Content Per Day: 6.19 Reputation: 11,244 Days Won: 58 Joined: 01/03/2005 Status: Offline Share Posted May 7, 2006 3 scriptural basis for divorce: Adultery Abuse (which is where this falls obviously) Abandonment Where is the scripture backing this claim that abuse is a scriptural basis for divorce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitality22004 Posted May 7, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 vitality, I can see where your heart truly is at right now. It is very clear you want to leave your husband because of his behavior and I can understand that I truly can. It is very hard to be around those who carry on like that let alone your own husband especially if you are a christian who fears the Lord it is extremly offensive behavior to have to deal with. You have chosen in this life to marry this man and now you have kids you are bound to him now by law it does not matter if he is christian or not you said the marriage vows for better or for worse. All i can tell you is that it can get better by G-ds grace. That there can be true happiness again within your marriage. But I can see by your response that you are hardened right now as well and are having no tolerance to working at this relationship and for doing the things maybe you need to do in order for reconcilation between the two of you. If your heart is made up to leave then all the christian counseling for you or your husband does no good for the home will be forever broken and with broken homes comes broken lives. I pray that you would not use the word of G-d to try to find loop holes that will lead you in the wrong way a midst your hurting heart. lots of time the anger and bitterness we have in our hearts guides us and decieves us so that we can't get to the wound and pain of our own heart to mend it and dress it as it needs to be. For I have found this deception within my own life dealing with my own problems. Don't let the pain and anger and bitterness guide you adress the pain in heart and take care of it so healing can come to your entire family. Take courage to do what must be done. blessings once again Openly Curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitality22004 Posted May 7, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 (edited) That is right marnie. proverbs 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thy heart shall utter perverse things. This verse in the Bible talks about one of the effects of drinking or being drunk. If he is drinking and going to bars alot there is a good chance she could catch him in adultery if she tried. What about 1 Cor 5:11 guys? The Corinthian church was exhorted not to associate with anyone who was Christian and known to be an adulterer, idolater or a person with a foul tongue or is a drunkard. Does this mean that this applies to everyone you are not married to but if you are married to any of the above, God expects you to not just associate with them but to live with them and submit to them? That Scripture ends by saying 'you must not so much as eat with such a person'. vitality, I can see where your heart truly is at right now. It is very clear you want to leave your husband because of his behavior and I can understand that I truly can. It is very hard to be around those who carry on like that let alone your own husband especially if you are a christian who fears the Lord it is extremly offensive behavior to have to deal with. You have chosen in this life to marry this man and now you have kids you are bound to him now by law it does not matter if he is christian or not you said the marriage vows for better or for worse. All i can tell you is that it can get better by G-ds grace. That there can be true happiness again within your marriage. But I can see by your response that you are hardened right now as well and are having no tolerance to working at this relationship and for doing the things maybe you need to do in order for reconcilation between the two of you. If your heart is made up to leave then all the christian counseling for you or your husband does no good for the home will be forever broken and with broken homes comes broken lives. I pray that you would not use the word of G-d to try to find loop holes that will lead you in the wrong way a midst your hurting heart. lots of time the anger and bitterness we have in our hearts guides us and decieves us so that we can't get to the wound and pain of our own heart to mend it and dress it as it needs to be. For I have found this deception within my own life dealing with my own problems. Don't let the pain and anger and bitterness guide you adress the pain in heart and take care of it so healing can come to your entire family. Take courage to do what must be done. blessings once again Openly Curious Sorry guys...tried to say, I'm not the person involved. I was the Christian counsellor. I am a widow who had 27 years of happy marriage!!!!! Edited May 7, 2006 by vitality22004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jckduboise Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 That is right marnie. proverbs 23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thy heart shall utter perverse things. This verse in the Bible talks about one of the effects of drinking or being drunk. If he is drinking and going to bars alot there is a good chance she could catch him in adultery if she tried. What about 1 Cor 5:11 guys? The Corinthian church was exhorted not to associate with anyone who was Christian and known to be an adulterer, idolater or a person with a foul tongue or is a drunkard. Does this mean that this applies to everyone you are not married to but if you are married to any of the above, God expects you to not just associate with them but to live with them and submit to them? That Scripture ends by saying 'you must not so much as eat with such a person'. vitality, I can see where your heart truly is at right now. It is very clear you want to leave your husband because of his behavior and I can understand that I truly can. It is very hard to be around those who carry on like that let alone your own husband especially if you are a christian who fears the Lord it is extremly offensive behavior to have to deal with. You have chosen in this life to marry this man and now you have kids you are bound to him now by law it does not matter if he is christian or not you said the marriage vows for better or for worse. All i can tell you is that it can get better by G-ds grace. That there can be true happiness again within your marriage. But I can see by your response that you are hardened right now as well and are having no tolerance to working at this relationship and for doing the things maybe you need to do in order for reconcilation between the two of you. If your heart is made up to leave then all the christian counseling for you or your husband does no good for the home will be forever broken and with broken homes comes broken lives. I pray that you would not use the word of G-d to try to find loop holes that will lead you in the wrong way a midst your hurting heart. lots of time the anger and bitterness we have in our hearts guides us and decieves us so that we can't get to the wound and pain of our own heart to mend it and dress it as it needs to be. For I have found this deception within my own life dealing with my own problems. Don't let the pain and anger and bitterness guide you adress the pain in heart and take care of it so healing can come to your entire family. Take courage to do what must be done. blessings once again Openly Curious Sorry guys...tried to say, I'm not the person involved. I was the Christian counsellor. I am a widow who had 27 years of happy marriage!!!!! Yes you did and I read that in the beginning. So you are a counselor and are probably aware of the programs out there to help this man who is so sick. The thing that is being missed here is that this poor man has a disease that without help will not get better only worse. I have lived as a child of alcoholic parents and I have also been the one to carry the disease. I can say that abandoning this man will most likely not save him from his disease. This is a family disease and these people need to look at the whole picture. The family all have roles in this man's addiction. The wife most likely is a care taker who takes on the role of making sure that everyone in the house hold is happy and she gives everything of herself and gets nothing in return. She most likely enables the husband to continue with his drinking and probably has covered for him on many occasions to many people. She needs help with her role as well as him needing help with his. The disease of addiction, as I have said, is a family disease that requires all to get healthy in order for the family dynamics to work. And all of this can be accomplished if the Lord is invited into the healing process. Not every family that deals with this disease comes to an end. I will be praying for this family that they seek the professional help needed and the spiritual guidance needed to stay together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vitality22004 Posted May 7, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 105 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/22/2004 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 Jackie, thank you for your reply and your sincerity. I only raised this in a post because of the pastor's counsel. The man with the problem of alcohol abuse is a Christian and I felt he needed help as well as his family but as long as the church's counsel was only to his wife that she must submit to him even in situations that placed her children at risk, i felt that he would not get the help he needed. I agree that alcoholism is a disease and that insight is a major problem with those who drink. I also agree that abandoning someone with a problem of alcohol doesn't help them but I don't think that the wife can handle this on her own without the support of the church. Some of the posts have suggested a period of separation, which in this situation might be useful to help the man realise what he stands to lose if he doesn't get help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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