Trinity? Mark13 "The Lord is One"

[Guest coolwaters]

Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one .[5] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[6] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[7] There is no commandment greater than these."

32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.

The passage from Mark 12, concerning the "Lord is one" seems to add legitimacy to the Jewish side of the trinity argument. I wish to hear the Jewish and Christian sides of the trinity argument regarding this verse. Show me where I'm getting confused.

[Guest coolwaters]

Well here's my thoughts on the trinity. I tend to want to take a simple elementary approach. I believe the simpler the explanation the truer the explanation. I have always heard the christian explanation of the trinity and it seemed good, but it always seemed the explanation was overly complex more so than it should be or G-d intended. I think that is why christians have such a hard time grasping the concept and some even forget. I don't know if man is adhearing to much weight on the issue or not.

Ever since I was child I always pictured the trinity in my mind like this. God was the main figure or body and Jesus and the Holy Spirit were the arms and the legs. All one entity but Jesus and the Holy Spirit were separate and distinct in the sense that arms and legs are distinguishably distinct from the main body but are still considered the body in total. That is Jesus and the Holy Spirit are merely extensions from G-d. This explanation I imagined as a child has always stayed with me long after the nuances of the other explanations have left my memory.

Is this reasoning sound? How does it compare to yall's theology?

[sagz4Christ]

Well, I don't really know the Jewish side of the argument, but I also don't agree completely with yours either, though in an elementary sense, I suppose I can see the correlation of the three. It is stated plainly in Scripture that there are three distinct personalities in the God-head. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I really don't consider them part of the same BODY as you have described. They are all One, in that they are the same person.

Consider the following section of Scripture:

Genesis 18

2So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3and said, "My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant."

They said, "Do as you have said."

We see that it is in three very sepereate bodies that the Lord had visited Abraham. We know it is God because Abraham fell down and "bowed himself to the ground". When we see instances of people bowing before angels, we also notice a quick admonision to stop, for they are not God. We don't see this here, so we must conclude the people Abraham is bowing before is the ONE true Lord/God.

I often find it hard to illustrate the seperateness of the God-head bodily for the fact that my mind (as human as it is) cannot grasp the concept. It was explained to me this way:

A cow has a body but no spirit.

A man has a body and one spirit.

Why cannot God one body and three Spirits?

Though this doesn't explain fully the God-Man Jesus Christ, it kind of helps to understand the complexity of the question posed.

I hope I shed some light on this for you

your servant by His Blood;

~Sagz

[Guest coolwaters]

Well, I don't really know the Jewish side of the argument, but I also don't agree completely with yours either, though in an elementary sense, I suppose I can see the correlation of the three. It is stated plainly in Scripture that there are three distinct personalities in the God-head. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. I really don't consider them part of the same BODY as you have described. They are all One, in that they are the same person.

Consider the following section of Scripture:

Genesis 18

2So he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing by him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the ground, 3and said, "My Lord, if I have now found favor in Your sight, do not pass on by Your servant. 4Please let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree. 5And I will bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh your hearts. After that you may pass by, inasmuch as you have come to your servant."

They said, "Do as you have said."

We see that it is in three very sepereate bodies that the Lord had visited Abraham. We know it is God because Abraham fell down and "bowed himself to the ground". When we see instances of people bowing before angels, we also notice a quick admonision to stop, for they are not God. We don't see this here, so we must conclude the people Abraham is bowing before is the ONE true Lord/God.

I often find it hard to illustrate the seperateness of the God-head bodily for the fact that my mind (as human as it is) cannot grasp the concept. It was explained to me this way:

A cow has a body but no spirit.

A man has a body and one spirit.

Why cannot God one body and three Spirits?

Though this doesn't explain fully the God-Man Jesus Christ, it kind of helps to understand the complexity of the question posed.

I hope I shed some light on this for you

your servant by His Blood;

~Sagz

Thanks sagz,

The Genesis scripture, I never heard that particular description of those three figures that way before. Thanks for pointing it out. How sure though can you be that he wasn't accompanied by angels; ie.. Cherubim?

Why cannot God one body and three Spirits?

I can grasp that easily enough. But like you said it does leave it incomplete. As probably my simple description does.

Let me ask you or any body else that wishes to participate a question. Can the Mark 12:30-34 scripture be interpreted to describe a meaning of the trinity. Since it is in the context of speaking about their is one G-d, no other god but the Elyon El (Most High G-d). I'm leaning that it can't but I have heard interpretations of scripture that just didn't occur to me before I heard it spoke. G-d's word can have deeper meaning beyond whats easily found on the surface. Thanks

[sagz4Christ]

I think another way to interpret the Trinity of the God-head is to think of what happens to us humans when we marry.

We are individuals before we get married. When we get married, we "become one flesh". This, in God's eyes means that we are one. A single entity. When we pitcure in our minds the image of the "perfect" marriage, we are actually an image of the Trinity for God should be at the head of the marriage. If God is at the head, that is one personality. The husband makes the second personality, and the wife carries the third. All together, they make "one" complete entity, but within that there are three distinct personalities, all working together with one mind and one purpose.

This is again a somewhat limiting picture, for in a marriage, God may not be a part of it, and the relationship between all three may not be(and most likely isn't) the perfect union we see in the God-head.

As to the Genesis passage, all three people spoke as one. If the two accompanying God were angles, they would not have spoken as if they were. Another thing we have to be aware of is that if the other two were indeed angels, then they also would be worshiping the one that was God. As this didn't happen, we can conclude safely that all three were each member of the God-head.

As for the Mark 12 passage, I personally have never heard of it beiing interpreted that way. There IS one God. The statement is true, but I don't think the passage is trying to indicate anything about the Trinity by saying that. The passage of Mark 12 illustrates that for those who sincerely desire to be instructed concerning theri duty, Christ will guide in judgement, and teach His way. The passage actually begins in verse 28 with the scribe asking Christ of the greatest commandment. Christ obliges the scribe by plainly telling him. In reference to your pointed question about "the Lord is One".....Maybe this will help.

It is a quote from the book: "Coffman Commentaries on the Old and New Testament":

Verses 29, 30

Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our Lord, the Lord is one: and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength.

The Lord is one ...

This is a quotation from Deut. 6:4; and the oneness of God, as set forth in the Old Testament, is a compound unity, like the oneness of the people, or the oneness in a marriage. The Hebrew word that denotes this is ['echad], and must be distinguished from ['achid], meaning an absolute unity. There is no argument here against the concept of a Trinity.

I hope this clears things up a bit. You are correct when you say that you disagree with the teaching that this passage can be interpreted to describe the Trinity. Not all teachers are expounding corrrectly and the ones that are doing it knowingly will ALWAYS put just enough truth in to make it seem plausible....as it sounds like you have found. I commend you for being sensative to the Spirits leading you to search out and study for yourself what that passage really means and for searching about the Trinity.

Praise God for HIs faithfullness!!!

your humble servant by His Blood;

~Sagz

[Mrs Mac]

I see it that God is One but manifests Himself in three different ways. "Farther along, we'll know all about it."

Ethlyn

[nebula]

To add - I have heard that "one" can also mean "unified" - like the idividual strands that form one braid.

Make sense?

[Guest coolwaters]

To add - I have heard that "one" can also mean "unified" - like the idividual strands that form one braid.

Make sense?

Yes and thanks.

I'm not questioning the existence of the trinity just the way it has been described.

[refugepsa91]

To add - I have heard that "one" can also mean "unified" - like the idividual strands that form one braid.

Make sense?

probably a dumb question here....I like that explanation alot and will remember that when my little ones ask me again.

so do you mean that 3 strands stand for God, Jesus (physically), and then Jesus's spirit?....His spirit that is with us today. I'm not very good at getting my question across...I hope I don't confuse anyone

Love and Blessings

Angel H.

[sagz4Christ]

so do you mean that 3 strands stand for God, Jesus (physically), and then Jesus's spirit?....His spirit that is with us today. I'm not very good at getting my question across...I hope I don't confuse anyone

Love and Blessings

Angel H.

I think what you are saying is that three strands = God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. You would be correct. Though I would tend to refer to the Spirit as the Holy Spirit. He is also called the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of God/Christ... He is Christ's Spirit, though He is also God's Spirit and He is also His own separate Spirit. Just like we have God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit.

That is just how I would refer to Him though I don't see a problem with how you do either! :t:

your humble servant by His Blood;

~sagz