"You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church."

[Michael333]

When Jesus is speaking to Peter in this verse, what church is he talking about? He certainly didn't mean to have hundreds of churches such as Lutherans, First Baptists, Southern Baptists, Methodists, Pentacostals,.....etc, etc. So my question is, what church did Christ himself establish? Can this be proven?

[Ryan Dillard]

I don't think it is talking about a specific denomination, such as baptists and methodists as you suggested, but rather a group of people.

[Guest jckduboise]

The body of Christ is the church. Not a specific place or denomitation......

[gypc]

Rom 10:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. 11As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

John 3:16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that who so ever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

This is the church........who so ever believes!!

[Michael333]

The first Christians had no doubts about how to determine which was the true Church and which doctrines the true teachings of Christ. The test was simple: Just trace the apostolic succession of the claimants.

Apostolic succession is the line of bishops stretching back to the apostles. All over the world, all Catholic bishops are part of a lineage that goes back to the time of the apostles, something that is impossible in Protestant denominations (most of which do not even claim to have bishops).

The role of apostolic succession in preserving true doctrine is illustrated in the Bible. To make sure that the apostles

[Michael333]

The body of Christ is the church. Not a specific place or denomitation......

John 6:30 begins a colloquy that took place in the synagogue at Capernaum. The Jews asked Jesus what sign he could perform so that they might believe in him. As a challenge, they noted that "our ancestors ate manna in the desert." Could Jesus top that? He told them the real bread from heaven comes from the Father. "Give us this bread always," they said. Jesus replied, "I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never thirst." At this point the Jews understood him to be speaking metaphorically.

Jesus first repeated what he said, then summarized: "

[Michael333]

I don't think it is talking about a specific denomination, such as baptists and methodists as you suggested, but rather a group of people.

The body of Christ is the church. Not a specific place or denomitation......

Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: "You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church."

The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show.

Tatian the Syrian

"Simon Cephas answered and said,

[His Ambassador]

In the New Testament when the Bible refers to the "Church" it is refering to the Body of Believers, the Church Universal NOT any religious organization and certainly not the Roman church as has been implied. This argument has been used time and again by members of the RCC because that's what they have been taught and they have bought into it even without Scriptural support.

[Michael333]

Peter recognized as the rock on which Jesus declared he would build his Church; that this gave Peter a special primacy; and that Peter traveled to Rome, where he was martyred. It is historical fact that Peter was the first Bishop of Rome (the Pope) and that his successors can be traced from now all the way back to Peter himself. Do you deny historical fact? Can we not say that Peter was the first Pope? I can post the list of Popes that trace back to Peter if you like.

This is what we have been taught -- By the Apostles themselves, starting with Peter --to now Pope Benedict the XVI. The church has been teaching the same thing for over 2000 years. How can you say then that we have been misled? To say so, is to say we have been misled by Christ himself.

If you don't read anything else I have to say, at least study the history of the church you currently attend on Sundays. Where did it originate from? How did it come about? If you say that the "church" is a body of believers, and is Universal, then why are there so many different "churches" that have different beliefs? Why are we even having this discussion? -- Because THEY have been misled by others and are greatly confused. Because they have twisted and misinterpreted Scipture to meet their own needs. The word 'Catholic' means 'Universal'.

Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? Not according to the Bible. While we must guard against merely human tradition, the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.

Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).

To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2). In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession

[Brandli5]

The body of Christ is the church. Not a specific place or denomitation......

Agree.

It means all christians the body of christ.