SIN

[tsth]

Well, since I was being inconsiderate in sidetracking the other topic, I figured I'd just start a new one and see if there would be any more response here?

How does ongoing sin factor into the salvation equation?

Can a professed Christian be saved AND involved in ongoing sin?

What do you think...........according to the Scriptures?

I'll be curious to see how anyone will answer and the discussion on this.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[traveller]

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.

Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[refugepsa91]

I'm not very good at quoting scripture..yet! :il: One day I will get there though...

But I can tell you in my own words....I felt once I was saved that I just couldn't sin anymore....I had no compulsion to sin...not to say I don't but I also immediately ask for forgiveness...I guess I am trying to say after being truly saved I think the need or want to sin is slowly and surely wiped away.

I hope I didn't confuse anyone

Love and Blessings

Angel H.

What shall we say then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

<>Romans 6:1,2

Trav thought this was a good one too!

[tsth]

[tsth]

I will wait to see if there will be many replies, then if you all care to.......I want to get specific. Let's see what happens. I REALLY want to discuss this. Thanks all!

:il:

In His Love,

Suzanne

[sagz4Christ]

Wonderful topic. If you don't mind a guy that can't think straight and has an even harder time putting thoughts on paper....or computer screen :blush: I would like to join this topic as well!

Sin. It is a very broad topic. It covers a WHOLE lot of areas. And we could actually get lost in it as we did in the other topic for awhile!

ANYWAY, I digress.....

Sin, as it pertains to Salvation...by sagz...a thesis...heheh not really...it just sounded good

Seriously though...

We really need to understand the all encompassing aspect of sin...how God feels about it. We also need to understand the weight of it on our souls and in our lives.

I am not an orator, and I do not profess to having any knowledge worthy of teaching anyone else. Most of my posts are taken from serious study of 1)Scripture, 2) Prayer and 3)Bible Scholars I run across on the web. Mostly from Studylight.org, but some from books I have picked up along the way.

Let us look at sin. Point blank let us see what it is, what it does, and where it comes from. I take this from Easton's Bible Dictionary.

This will be a large chuck to digest right now, so I will leave it at this and see where the discussion goes from there. I make no attepmt to answer all the quetsions originally asked at the beginning in this post. I am breaking it down to common denominators. Starting with:

SIN

Is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God" (1 John 3:4; Romans 4:15), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission (Romans 6:12-17; 7:5-24). It is "not a mere violation of the law of our constitution, nor of the system of things, but an offence against a personal lawgiver and moral governor who vindicates his law with penalties. The soul that sins is always conscious that his sin is (1) intrinsically vile and polluting, and (2) that it justly deserves punishment, and calls down the righteous wrath of God. Hence sin carries with it two inalienable characters, (1) ill-desert, guilt (reatus); and (2) pollution (macula).", Hodge's Outlines.

The moral character of a man's actions is determined by the moral state of his heart. The disposition to sin, or the habit of the soul that leads to the sinful act, is itself also sin (Romans 6:12-17; Galatians 5:17; James 1:14,15).

The origin of sin is a mystery, and must for ever remain such to us. It is plain that for some reason God has permitted sin to enter this world, and that is all we know. His permitting it, however, in no way makes God the author of sin.

Adam's sin (Genesis 3:1-6) consisted in his yielding to the assaults of temptation and eating the forbidden fruit. It involved in it, (1) the sin of unbelief, virtually making God a liar; and (2) the guilt of disobedience to a positive command. By this sin he became an apostate from God, a rebel in arms against his Creator. He lost the favour of God and communion with him; his whole nature became depraved, and he incurred the penalty involved in the covenant of works.

Original sin. "Our first parents being the root of all mankind, the guilt of their sin was imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted nature were conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation." Adam was constituted by God the federal head and representative of all his posterity, as he was also their natural head, and therefore when he fell they fell with him (Romans 5:12-21; 1 Corinthians 15:22-45). His probation was their probation, and his fall their fall. Because of Adam's first sin all his posterity came into the world in a state of sin and condemnation, i.e., (1) a state of moral corruption, and (2) of guilt, as having judicially imputed to them the guilt of Adam's first sin.

"Original sin" is frequently and properly used to denote only the moral corruption of their whole nature inherited by all men from Adam. This inherited moral corruption consists in, (1) the loss of original righteousness; and (2) the presence of a constant proneness to evil, which is the root and origin of all actual sin. It is called "sin" (Romans 6:12,14,17; 7:5-17), the "flesh" (Galatians 5:17,24), "lust" (James 1:14,15), the "body of sin" (Romans 6:6), "ignorance," "blindness of heart," "alienation from the life of God" (Ephesians 4:18,19). It influences and depraves the whole man, and its tendency is still downward to deeper and deeper corruption, there remaining no recuperative element in the soul. It is a total depravity, and it is also universally inherited by all the natural descendants of Adam (Romans 3:10-23; 5:12-21; 8:7). Pelagians deny original sin, and regard man as by nature morally and spiritually well; semi-Pelagians regard him as morally sick; Augustinians, or, as they are also called, Calvinists, regard man as described above, spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1; 1 John 3:14).

The doctrine of original sin is proved,

From the fact of the universal sinfulness of men. "There is no man that sinneth not" (1 Kings 8:46; Isaiah 53:6; Psalms 130:3; Romans 3:19,22,23; Galatians 3:22).

From the total depravity of man. All men are declared to be destitute of any principle of spiritual life; man's apostasy from God is total and complete (Job 15:14-16; Genesis 6:5,6).

From its early manifestation (Psalms 58:3; Proverbs 22:15).

It is proved also from the necessity, absolutely and universally, of regeneration (John 3:3; 2co 5:17).

From the universality of death (Romans 5:12-20).

Various kinds of sin are mentioned,

"Presumptuous sins," or as literally rendered, "sins with an uplifted hand", i.e., defiant acts of sin, in contrast with "errors" or "inadvertencies" (Psalms 19:13).

"Secret", i.e., hidden sins (19:12); sins which escape the notice of the soul.

"Sin against the Holy Ghost" (q.v.), or a "sin unto death" (Matthew 12:31,32; 1 John 5:16), which amounts to a wilful rejection of grace.

Well...take your time...and be sure to take into account these are not my words! Let us see what is said and how we view it.

humbly yours in Christ;

~sagz

[Ovedya]

I prefer to think of it simpler terms. A father does not disown his son for doing something wrong. And a child cannot be genetically altered to the point of not being related to his father for making a mistake.

[sagz4Christ]

I do confess to being rather wordy. I will learn though how to say little and still get my point across...*sigh*

Very good point God-man!

Sagz

[tsth]

I prefer to think of it simpler terms. A father does not disown his son for doing something wrong.

This is not a "true" statement. Yes......a father does, just maybe not yours. Can a son lose an inheritance?

In His Love,

Suzanne

[tsth]

I would like to ask that you ponder my first question, before moving on.

Can a professed Christian be saved AND involved in ongoing sin?

This is the cruxt of my thread.

Thanks all!

In His Love,

Suzanne