Tony Blair to convert to catholicism.

[Pax]

If you like to drink....especially dark beer, Ireland is the place for you.

[Irish_Graham]

If you like to drink....especially dark beer, Ireland is the place for you.

Thats true unfortunately, its one of the reason I wanted to leave Ireland and now live in Japan, drink culture is rampant and you are some sort of outcast/freak if you are like me and dont drink.

[Irish_Graham]

Hey all,

I cannot help but at least pose a few questions on this topic, its not really related to the OP but the discussion does revolve around the RCC.

Just a bit of my personal history. I am of Irish descent, Canadian, born and baptized Catholic, participated in 1st and 2nd communion, fell away from religion entirely, became a complete non-believer before I was an adult. At 38 years old I saw a documentary that changed my life which made me rethink my relationship with God. I made it a personal goal to study the Bible to be absolutely certain that if I were going to reject God that I would do it under my own influence and opinion. I was not going to let society and "popular opinion" influence my decision to follow God or reject God.

First I started to study Mathew which then lead me to study Old Testament prophecy, interesting enough, along the way I did have memories of my childhood days of Catholicism still etched in my brain and came up with a few questions which I will detail below. I now attend a Church every Saturday (or at least try to attend) which is a combination of both Jew and Gentile believers, Sundays I sometimes attend a Baptist Church but I have also dropped in on our local Catholic church for mass as well.

I personally believe that the composition of the church in the end, will be made up of both Jew and Gentile but there is just no way that I can see Jews getting saved by converting to Catholicism due to the past history of the RCC persecuting Jews. Ephesians 2:11-16 gives us the description and composition of the true Church and body of Christ.

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

This can also be interpreted to mean the "Invisible Church" both Jew and Gentile believers who do not congregate with one another but will make up the body of Christ.

So after a couple of short years I have come to a saving knowledge of Christ, I refuse to reject Him and Love Him with all my heart but because I have chosen to read and attend sermons and services which promote reading and study of scripture, I now find myself at an impasse with the Catholic Chucrh who do not advocate Bible study, nor do they even have Bibles in the pews to follow through at mass.

Here are just a few questions I have concerning what I have found in scripture and what the RCC teaches it's members.

1 Timothy 2:5

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Scripture says the only mediator between man and God is Christ. The Catholic Church I attend has a statue of Christ on the cross ascending into the arms of Mother Mary and not to the right hand of God as stated in scripture. Where in scripture does Mary ascend into heaven? where in scripture does God grant mary the position as Mother of all creation?

Christ said "call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." chapter and verse Mathew 23:9

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Please explain why the Catholic Church defies God Himself? under what or whose authority does the Vatican grant a priest to become the mediator between man and God violating 1 Timothy 2:5?

Exodus 20: 3-5

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Under what authority does the Vatican have in violating Exodus 20:3-5 by placing statues to which people bow and kneel to upon entering and exiting the Church?

Where in the following verses did our Lord identify His Mother as being anything more than a person truly blessed for actually bearing the son of God?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Looks clear to me that the only one mentioned with reference to heaven is the Father. In John 2: 1-4 Jesus refers to His mother as "Woman" in a way that does not seem to identify any form of authority towards her person.

1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Don't get me wrong Mary was truly blessed to have been chosen to give birth to our Lord but no where in scripture was she granted any special status to be the mediator between man and God. It's very important that we understand why the Vatican has granted it as such, but it is non-scriptural. There is no scriptural evidence to support the Catholic Church on this view.

Peace

CJ

These are some of the reasons I cant accept Catholicism as being Biblically based.

There are others too, the rosary, saying hail Mary's for penance, purgatory, classifying sins, the confessional with the priest, the pope, celibacy, male only preachers, the vatican, all these things as I see them go against scripture and again Jesus' words.

[followerofjesus]

How many christians in Japan ? What is the main faith there?

[Irish_Graham]

Not many at all, few here and there, most westerners who live here.

Main faiths are buddhism and shintoism, not good, a demonic stronghold no doubt, both from ancient occult beliefs like buddha and shinto, as well as wave after wave of new age stuff.

[Pax]

Hey all,

I cannot help but at least pose a few questions on this topic, its not really related to the OP but the discussion does revolve around the RCC.

Just a bit of my personal history. I am of Irish descent, Canadian, born and baptized Catholic, participated in 1st and 2nd communion, fell away from religion entirely, became a complete non-believer before I was an adult. At 38 years old I saw a documentary that changed my life which made me rethink my relationship with God. I made it a personal goal to study the Bible to be absolutely certain that if I were going to reject God that I would do it under my own influence and opinion. I was not going to let society and "popular opinion" influence my decision to follow God or reject God.

First I started to study Mathew which then lead me to study Old Testament prophecy, interesting enough, along the way I did have memories of my childhood days of Catholicism still etched in my brain and came up with a few questions which I will detail below. I now attend a Church every Saturday (or at least try to attend) which is a combination of both Jew and Gentile believers, Sundays I sometimes attend a Baptist Church but I have also dropped in on our local Catholic church for mass as well.

I personally believe that the composition of the church in the end, will be made up of both Jew and Gentile but there is just no way that I can see Jews getting saved by converting to Catholicism due to the past history of the RCC persecuting Jews. Ephesians 2:11-16 gives us the description and composition of the true Church and body of Christ.

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

This can also be interpreted to mean the "Invisible Church" both Jew and Gentile believers who do not congregate with one another but will make up the body of Christ.

So after a couple of short years I have come to a saving knowledge of Christ, I refuse to reject Him and Love Him with all my heart but because I have chosen to read and attend sermons and services which promote reading and study of scripture, I now find myself at an impasse with the Catholic Chucrh who do not advocate Bible study, nor do they even have Bibles in the pews to follow through at mass.

Here are just a few questions I have concerning what I have found in scripture and what the RCC teaches it's members.

1 Timothy 2:5

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Scripture says the only mediator between man and God is Christ. The Catholic Church I attend has a statue of Christ on the cross ascending into the arms of Mother Mary and not to the right hand of God as stated in scripture. Where in scripture does Mary ascend into heaven? where in scripture does God grant mary the position as Mother of all creation?

Christ said "call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." chapter and verse Mathew 23:9

9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Please explain why the Catholic Church defies God Himself? under what or whose authority does the Vatican grant a priest to become the mediator between man and God violating 1 Timothy 2:5?

Exodus 20: 3-5

3Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Under what authority does the Vatican have in violating Exodus 20:3-5 by placing statues to which people bow and kneel to upon entering and exiting the Church?

Where in the following verses did our Lord identify His Mother as being anything more than a person truly blessed for actually bearing the son of God?

6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Looks clear to me that the only one mentioned with reference to heaven is the Father. In John 2: 1-4 Jesus refers to His mother as "Woman" in a way that does not seem to identify any form of authority towards her person.

1And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:

2And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

3And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Don't get me wrong Mary was truly blessed to have been chosen to give birth to our Lord but no where in scripture was she granted any special status to be the mediator between man and God. It's very important that we understand why the Vatican has granted it as such, but it is non-scriptural. There is no scriptural evidence to support the Catholic Church on this view.

Peace

CJ

These are some of the reasons I cant accept Catholicism as being Biblically based.

There are others too, the rosary, saying hail Mary's for penance, purgatory, classifying sins, the confessional with the priest, the pope, celibacy, male only preachers, the vatican, all these things as I see them go against scripture and again Jesus' words.

If you would like to discuss any of this topics send me a PM.

[Irish_Graham]

Hey folks, thought Id dig this one up.

What does everyone think of the pope's Turkish visit?

Kinda makes me feel he stepping on toes to have a big apology and reconciliation session which could lead to some sort of bond being formed. Call me cynical but this does seem kind of contrived.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Irish_Graham

[billie]

There are two whole threads on that subject around here somewhere, probably in the News sections.