Christian & Catholic Marital Question

[artsylady]

Matthew 12:45 - 46,

John 2:11 - 13,

John 7:1 - 5,

Mark 6:3 - 4,

Matthew 13:55 - 56,

Galatians 1:19

Did any of the Catholics look up these verses posted by Mike? It's pretty convincing that Mary did have other children. Any comments at all?

[jesusislord]

amen artslady...... now another one is this. ........

in genisus three is says that adam knew eve meaning having sex so that they could have children....

In MATTHEW 1; 24,25 is says that Joesph knew mary meaning that they had sex..... after JESUS was born......

a marriage is no legal unless it is comsumated by jewish law. thus they had to of had sex for them to be legally married.

again proof that mary was not a virgin FOREVER

[artsylady]

Amen again!

[homebild]

amen artslady...... now another one is this. ........

in genisus three is says that adam knew eve meaning having sex so that they could have children....

In MATTHEW 1; 24,25 is says that Joesph knew mary meaning that they had sex..... after JESUS was born......

a marriage is no legal unless it is comsumated by jewish law. thus they had to of had sex for them to be legally married.

again proof that mary was not a virgin FOREVER

"a marriage is no legal unless it is comsumated by jewish law. thus they had to of had sex for them to be legally married.

again proof that mary was not a virgin FOREVER "

This is a patently FALSE statement.

Under Jewish Law, sexual intercourse was NOT and NEVER, the proof of marriage.

In fact, upon betrothal, the bride-elect was often immediately taken to live with the husband and shared all of the rights and restrictions as a full wife.

Scripture teaches that Mary was in such a state of betrothal to Joseph and would have had all the rights and protections of marriage without there have been any intercourse between them or the marriage actually civilly performed. Which is why Joseph sought to secretly divorce Mary even though the marriage had not yet been consummated.

In fact, in Jewish culture, the marriage rite was as simple as the two people publically announcing that they were in fact married without any further civil ceremony.

See further in the article below:

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp...search=marriage

To suggest that Mary and Joseph were not legitimatley married before they had intercourse is to suggest that Jesus was born as an illegitimate child, a bastard, fully outside of Jewish Law.

I hope you are not suggesting that.

But once again great ignorance of Jewish history and custom is shown.

Whether or not Mary remained perpetually a virgin is irrlevant to the discussion.

[homebild]

Mike Irish:

If you (or anyone) want to post some questions directly to me in clear English, I'll be glad to answer them...I cannot make heads or tails of your above post. It reads like gibberish... sorry.

[artsylady]

Homebild:

So argue with THIS then!

Matthew 12:45 - 46,

John 2:11 - 13,

John 7:1 - 5,

Mark 6:3 - 4,

Matthew 13:55 - 56,

Galatians 1:19

Was Mary a virgin forever, or were the New Testament writers liars?

[homebild]

Homebild:

So argue with THIS then!

Matthew 12:45 - 46,

John 2:11 - 13,

John 7:1 - 5,

Mark 6:3 - 4,

Matthew 13:55 - 56,

Galatians 1:19

Was Mary a virgin forever, or were the New Testament writers liars?

I'm not sure what you think I should be arguing with....

What I corrected as patently false in my preceeding post was the erroneous statement that was made that claimed that jewish marriage was only made legal after sexual intercourse. This is indeed false as indicated by the link to the authoritative Jewish website I noted.

I made no comment about Mary's perpetual virginity one way or the other and noted that her perpetual virginity was irrelevant to the discussion of when her marriage took place.

We as orthodox christians accept Mary as a virgin at Jesus' birth. Whether she remained a virgin perpetually is an unprovable point and a matter of tradition and interpretation as to which of the various and equally plausible

scenarios that exist.

For example, based upon ALL the scriptural evidence. Mary could have:

1) Remained a perpetual Virgin

a) but had adopted children from Joseph's previous marriage

2) Did Not Remain a perpetual Virgin...

a) Yet still did not have any natural children

b) but had adopted children in addition to natural ones

c) but had no adopted or natural children

Traditonally, the Catholic Church has accepted a view that Mary remained a 'technical' virgin even after having been married to Joseph, citing the belief among Church fathers that Joseph was well advanced in age upon his marriage to Mary and thereby incapable of fathering children. (The Bible does not say one way or another how old Joseph was...).

And the Greek language does indeed allow for the words ALDELPHOS/ADELPHOI for 'brothers'/'sisters' to NOT mean literal brothers and sisters, but STEP SIBLINGS, COUSINS, or simply fellow TOWNSMEN, CLANSMEN or COUNTYMEN. So NOTHING really CAN be said with any certainty alone that the 'adelphoi' mentioned in scripture were Jesus' actual, literal brother's or sisters via mary or Joseph.

Protestants have developed their OWN traditons some of which accept the Catholic View of perpetual virginity while others reject perpetual virginity for the view that Mary had natural children besides Jesus.

The point is whatever the view, SO WHAT?

It does NOT change the fact that Mary and Joseph were LEGALLY betrothed when Jesus was conceived and/or born.

What remains FALSE, is that they were not considered MARRIED until they had sex.

Nothing could be further from the truth under Jewish Law.

Betrotheds had the same rights and responsibilities as MARRIEDS under Jewish Law...and just WHEN the actual marriage rites for Joseph and Mary took place is not recorded in the scripture.

[jesusislord]

YES I MADE THAT MISTAKE I DIDNOT CHRCK OUT MY SOURCE JUST MADE THE STATEMENT FORGIVE ME

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT THE BIBLES SAYS MARY WAS NOT A VIRGIN AFTER JESUS WAS BORN

SHE WAS UNTIL BUT AFTERWARD NO WAY ACCORDING TO THE WORD

[jesusislord]

HOMEBILD SAID THIS........ Traditonally, the Catholic Church has accepted a view that Mary remained a 'technical' virgin even after having been married to Joseph, citing the belief among Church fathers that Joseph was well advanced in age upon his marriage to Mary and thereby incapable of fathering children. (The Bible does not say one way or another how old Joseph was...).

MAY I ASK WHERE THE SCIRPTURE TO BACK THIS UP IS

PLEASE

[jesusislord]

ENOUGH OF THIS AGRUEMENT...... I HAVE DONE ALL I WILL DO ON THIS FALSE TEACHINGS OF THE RCC........ MAKING MARY A god.... she was sinner just like the restof us

bye now