please read everyone . . .

[Observer of dreams]

Hey this post is a lot of fun!

I'm just curious as to why this post is fun to you?

Let's say five hundred years ago there was a guy who lived in an african village. He never caused harm to anyone and devoted his life to helping others. Let's say he also died trying to save someone. Never in his life he heard about this Jesus guy. He never owned a Bible nor would have been able to read it. Did he go to hell or to heaven?

He went to heaven, I answered your hypothetical question with a hypothetical answer.

Some people wrongly think that to make it to heaven you just have be as good a person as you can be.

Response was...

Wow you already answered the above question. I guess being a good person just isn't enough to please your immoral god.

He didn't answer the question. The new testament states that we are to do Gods' work and use Gods' word to help as many as we can. Not to use our own selfish deeds to please God. For instance using money you stole to give to the offering plate. The point isn't about where God stands with money, but that someone else suffered for your own gain.

Also being as good of a person that you can be is different for everyone. The bible says not to use our sinful nature as an excuse to do wrong to other people.

can you please explain to me why exactly someone who never had the chance to know about your religion must go to Hell regardless what kind of life he led?

You ask assuming he goes to hell, based on the bible only God knows anyway, it's for the day of judgment when those who do not know the lord will become aware of him, then they may choose to repent or face the second death.

Edited July 8, 2006 by Observer of dreams

[Observer of dreams]

feel free to barge in attacking my posts at random just because I'm an atheist.

If I was attacking your posts at random I wouldn't be able to attack your posts on the basis of you being an atheist because that would make it calculated, not random. Also I wasn't attacking you, but defending my beliefs against your ungodly slander. If you do not like it then quit saying hurtful things about my father.

(edit)

Foul language....

Edited July 9, 2006 by IslandRose

[Isaiah-smiles]

He went to heaven, I answered your hypothetical question with a hypothetical answer.

Then I have nothing to add. The OP, however, said the contrary. He stated clearly and explicitly that no matter how good you are if you don't subscribe to his branch of Christianity you go to hell. That's also why I was addressing the OP instead of you, but feel free to barge in attacking my posts at random just because I'm an atheist. It's widely known that atheists cannot get it right Actually, just to balance the scales will you let me disagree with you? Come on, just to keep things balanced ok? It's fine if I don't have any actual argument against you, right?

OK, can I barge in too??

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Romans 1) "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15. Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel." (Romans 2)

You see Lepaca Kliffoth, although a person may have never known nor heard the name of Jesus, he still has two witnesses that declare that there is a true and Living God.

FIRST WITNESS; according to (Romans 1), a person , no matter where they are from, can clearly see that there is a Creator from the creation itself. And if there is a Creator (Romans 2) reveals that He is a Moral agent, who will one day hold all accountable for the trespassing of His Laws, which brings us to the ...

SECOND WITNESS; He writes His Laws upon every heart and our consciiences bears witness whenever we break those Laws. God's Laws are universal no matter where you live. It's wrong to murder, to lie, to steal, to commit adultery, no matter where you live. And WHEN you break God's Law your own conscience bears witness to the fact that you broke the Law, for example; when you tell a lie you KNOW it's a lie, when you steal you KNOW that you have stolen, if you cheat on your spouse you KNOW that you are cheating (committing Adultery). You see, in Latin CON=with and SCIENCE=knowledge. So, when you break God's Law(s), you do it "with knowledge". And God will hold that person responsible for the penalties of the Laws that were broken in that person's life (the wages of sin is death, BUT, the gift of God is eternal life). So they are without excuse.

And you may not like that, but no matter what you like or dislike. Or, no matter what you believe or disbelieve, God's Word has been around alot longer than you have and it is THE BOOK that has been tested, banned and burned throughout time and is still banned in certain parts of the world today. BUT, two wonderful facts will always stand true; Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (Matt. 24:35). 2,000 years later we can still read the Words of Christ. And the second thing that will stand true is; "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:10,11)

[cjrose]

Lepaca Kliffoth:

Before you ASSUME that we believe the person you describe goes to hell, let me ask you why you also ASSUME that this person has 'no opportunity' to hear about Jesus. We Christians also believe in 'life after death.'

Seems to me you ASSUME an awful lot that is simply incorrect. And you know what happens when we "assume"...........

I know God, and I assure you He is fair. Nobody spends eternity separated from God, UNLESS THEY WANT TO. And there are people who simply DETEST the presence and influence of a holy and righteous and loving Being.

So; got any real questions, or do you just want to keep making a putz of yourself by waving your red herrings?

Well put Leonard. I have to admit that I took offense at the word "immoral" used to describe God. Made me crease my brows together in a frown for a moment being a protective Christian as I am, defending the faith and the most merciful, gracious, giving, loveing creator= God that has enough compassion and forgiveness to keep me around well... Gettin' on my armor now. That's my two cents.

[Guest Thomas I Believe]

Lepaca Kliffoth:

Before you ASSUME that we believe the person you describe goes to hell, let me ask you why you also ASSUME that this person has 'no opportunity' to hear about Jesus. We Christians also believe in 'life after death.'

Seems to me you ASSUME an awful lot that is simply incorrect. And you know what happens when we "assume"...........

I know God, and I assure you He is fair. Nobody spends eternity separated from God, UNLESS THEY WANT TO. And there are people who simply DETEST the presence and influence of a holy and righteous and loving Being.

So; got any real questions, or do you just want to keep making a putz of yourself by waving your red herrings?

Well put Leonard. I have to admit that I took offense at the word "immoral" used to describe God. Made me crease my brows together in a frown for a moment being a protective Christian as I am, defending the faith and the most merciful, gracious, giving, loveing creator= God that has enough compassion and forgiveness to keep me around well... Gettin' on my armor now. That's my two cents.

Amen !!

[Guest baystreet424@yahoo.com]

Jesus Christ the Son of God didn't come to judge us but to save us so that we can go to heaven instead of hell when we die.

Nobody knows exactly when they are going to die this is why you need to make Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Savior today.

You may die in a traffic accident or some other way before you get another chance to be saved.

You need to make Jesus Christ your personal Lord and Savior so that you will go to heaven instead of hell when you die.

The graphic reports of hell in the Holy Bible such as the abyss, the lake of fire, the blackest darkness, the weeping and gnashing of teeth, disclose the stark reality of a place eternally separated from the love of God. (Rev. 9:1-11) (Rev. 20:14) (Jude 13) (Matt. 25:30)

Many people wrongly think that being a good person will get them into heaven.

Because the Son of God flawlessly obeyed God

[Marnie]

All people are accountable to God whether they have

[Guest baystreet424@yahoo.com]

posted at: (11:17:26 PM)

[SoulGrind]

My husband lost his faith and he was a devout believer. I never thought he would be an atheist but it happened and the main reason it happened (I think) was because of the doctrine of eternal hell.

I try not to think about hell at all for that reason.

That's a pretty sad thing to hear.

Hell's not much of a doctrine... more of a fact...

Can't have love without hate, black without white, up without down, over without under, God without Satan, Angels without Demons, Heaven without Hell.

Prove it?

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

For every electron we have a proton.

For every particle of matter there is a particle of anti-matter.

If you believe that God created this world we called Earth, and these fundamental, scientific laws are true and an integral part of Earth, ergo, created by God - then doesn't it stand that God plays by his own rules? We live in a world of opposites... think about it.

[SoulGrind]

Ummm... K.

Lepaca:

How do you manage to stand the stuff here?

How could you have so many posts? These people make me so frustrated with the preaching and Bible verses and..

Arrghhh...

Anyway:

She's right because she's not wrong..

If she was wrong, her entire religion would crumble. She doesn't want that to happen, so she can't be wrong. Or she at least can't address that possibility.

You are on this Christian web site by choice aren't you? You don't have to be here. What did you expect from a Christian site? You are quite naive.