Women in the Church today

[Floatingaxe]

Secular feminist political pressure? I think not. There is nothing secular about it. In fact, the whole notion that masculists are believing is secular.

I have no idea what this means.

The reason we don't ordain women is because the role of pastor and its requirements are clearly shown in scripture to be reserved for males. Any idea, which would contradict that, would come from outside of scripture and be secular in nature. In the case of the Episcopal Church USA it came from the secular feminist movement who claimed that Paul himself was sexist as were his writings in the New Testament. So now we see ECUSA saying that fornication is acceptable, that gay sex is acceptable among their bishops, and that Christ is not the only way to salvation. This is where this junk leads, and it is junk.

Is the bible itself a masculist document? I mean why didn't Christ appoint any female apostles? Was Christ a masculist? Certainly feminists would criticize Him today for only selecting men as Apostles correct? Maybe God should be seen as a Mother Earth type figure, a Goddess? This is the common claptrap language from those who are in the process of politicizing the bible for use in their own secular hang-ups. We cannot create a God that fits our notions or our politics, the only God we have and the only true God is revealed in Holy Scripture.

But I don't know if you are in that camp or not, and I am not laying that all on you at all, if not accept my apologies in advance.

What do you think would happen if Jesus invited females to be any of His disciples? Well no one knows why He didn't. But it is well-known that it was a culture He entered that denied women any status! He would be placing an undue hardship upon any woman He would call to that role. Jesus did not come to correct ALL cultural sins immediately! He only had 3 years, after all!

These things, along with slavery took centuries to eradicate, and we are still working on it. The culture of that time was influenced by Roman and Greek culture--all woman-hating!

I believe that Jesus knew that these walls were very strong and that if the world would follow after Him, then these things would naturally change. They have done so...but alas, not as well as they should have. Why? Because the devil has worked overtime to keep societies in bondage, especially about the role of the woman! He has successfully HALVED the Kingdom workforce AND caused men to fall to the sin of PRIDE. Woe to the church! If that isn't secularism, I don't know what is! We are all living under the influence of many of the Greek women-hating ideas yet today.

The church should be a role model to the world in the way it should function--men and women working together to serve the Lord and preach the good news as Jesus commanded ALL of us.

Re: your suggestion that I may be a member of the feminist "movement" which is trying to change the view of God to a Mother-type--NO. I am not in that camp. My views are shaped by scripture ONLY. Paul was not sexist in the least! I love him! He worked alongside women pastors throughout. He had no problem with that.

Blessings

[Nero's Fiddle]

But it is well-known that it was a culture He entered that denied women any status! He would be placing an undue hardship upon any woman He would call to that role.

He called other women to very tough roles, including ones not sanctioned by culture.

Mary became an unwed mother for a while there, and later the mother of a convicted and executed "Criminal". That was pretty hard on her, I imagine.

In Jesus' day, two witnesses were required to establish anything. Women were not acceptable as witnesses in Jewish thinking, because they were thought to be unreliable. However, one of the two witnesses of Jesus' Messiahship at birth was a woman, Anna. That was certainly not the cultural norm.

Moreover, many of Jesus' followers had undue hardship placed upon them, but that did not stop Him from doing what was right. How about the formerly blind man who was cast out of the synangogue (which created intense financial hardship for the needy) because Jesus healed him?

Or what about Paul? Because of his history and status as apostle to the Gentiles (definitely not culturally acceptable) he underwent hardship greater than that faced by many other apostles.

[Floatingaxe]

Neros' Fiddle...

We are both right!

[Nero's Fiddle]

Neros' Fiddle...

We are both right!

Huh?

[Smalcald]

Secular feminist political pressure? I think not. There is nothing secular about it. In fact, the whole notion that masculists are believing is secular.

I have no idea what this means.

The reason we don't ordain women is because the role of pastor and its requirements are clearly shown in scripture to be reserved for males. Any idea, which would contradict that, would come from outside of scripture and be secular in nature. In the case of the Episcopal Church USA it came from the secular feminist movement who claimed that Paul himself was sexist as were his writings in the New Testament. So now we see ECUSA saying that fornication is acceptable, that gay sex is acceptable among their bishops, and that Christ is not the only way to salvation. This is where this junk leads, and it is junk.

Is the bible itself a masculist document? I mean why didn't Christ appoint any female apostles? Was Christ a masculist? Certainly feminists would criticize Him today for only selecting men as Apostles correct? Maybe God should be seen as a Mother Earth type figure, a Goddess? This is the common claptrap language from those who are in the process of politicizing the bible for use in their own secular hang-ups. We cannot create a God that fits our notions or our politics, the only God we have and the only true God is revealed in Holy Scripture.

But I don't know if you are in that camp or not, and I am not laying that all on you at all, if not accept my apologies in advance.

What do you think would happen if Jesus invited females to be any of His disciples? Well no one knows why He didn't. But it is well-known that it was a culture He entered that denied women any status! He would be placing an undue hardship upon any woman He would call to that role. Jesus did not come to correct ALL cultural sins immediately! He only had 3 years, after all!

These things, along with slavery took centuries to eradicate, and we are still working on it. The culture of that time was influenced by Roman and Greek culture--all woman-hating!

I believe that Jesus knew that these walls were very strong and that if the world would follow after Him, then these things would naturally change. They have done so...but alas, not as well as they should have. Why? Because the devil has worked overtime to keep societies in bondage, especially about the role of the woman! He has successfully HALVED the Kingdom workforce AND caused men to fall to the sin of PRIDE. Woe to the church! If that isn't secularism, I don't know what is! We are all living under the influence of many of the Greek women-hating ideas yet today.

The church should be a role model to the world in the way it should function--men and women working together to serve the Lord and preach the good news as Jesus commanded ALL of us.

Re: your suggestion that I may be a member of the feminist "movement" which is trying to change the view of God to a Mother-type--NO. I am not in that camp. My views are shaped by scripture ONLY. Paul was not sexist in the least! I love him! He worked alongside women pastors throughout. He had no problem with that.

Blessings

I agree with much of what you have said. I also use only scripture as my guide, or try as much as is possible for a sinful person to do so. But you know of course that Christ did not come to change cultural sins. Individuals are sinful, cultures reflect those individuals. Christ came for one purpose to save those who have faith in Him as their Lord and Savior and to destroy sin and death and reconcile us with God. The only way this world will ever truly change is for people to convert to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. Outside of that, there will never be true change as sin will always reign outside of Christ.

I am glad you like Paul and Holy Scripture then you agree with Paul that only men should hold the office of pastor.

[Floatingaxe]

Secular feminist political pressure? I think not. There is nothing secular about it. In fact, the whole notion that masculists are believing is secular.

I have no idea what this means.

The reason we don't ordain women is because the role of pastor and its requirements are clearly shown in scripture to be reserved for males. Any idea, which would contradict that, would come from outside of scripture and be secular in nature. In the case of the Episcopal Church USA it came from the secular feminist movement who claimed that Paul himself was sexist as were his writings in the New Testament. So now we see ECUSA saying that fornication is acceptable, that gay sex is acceptable among their bishops, and that Christ is not the only way to salvation. This is where this junk leads, and it is junk.

Is the bible itself a masculist document? I mean why didn't Christ appoint any female apostles? Was Christ a masculist? Certainly feminists would criticize Him today for only selecting men as Apostles correct? Maybe God should be seen as a Mother Earth type figure, a Goddess? This is the common claptrap language from those who are in the process of politicizing the bible for use in their own secular hang-ups. We cannot create a God that fits our notions or our politics, the only God we have and the only true God is revealed in Holy Scripture.

But I don't know if you are in that camp or not, and I am not laying that all on you at all, if not accept my apologies in advance.

What do you think would happen if Jesus invited females to be any of His disciples? Well no one knows why He didn't. But it is well-known that it was a culture He entered that denied women any status! He would be placing an undue hardship upon any woman He would call to that role. Jesus did not come to correct ALL cultural sins immediately! He only had 3 years, after all!

These things, along with slavery took centuries to eradicate, and we are still working on it. The culture of that time was influenced by Roman and Greek culture--all woman-hating!

I believe that Jesus knew that these walls were very strong and that if the world would follow after Him, then these things would naturally change. They have done so...but alas, not as well as they should have. Why? Because the devil has worked overtime to keep societies in bondage, especially about the role of the woman! He has successfully HALVED the Kingdom workforce AND caused men to fall to the sin of PRIDE. Woe to the church! If that isn't secularism, I don't know what is! We are all living under the influence of many of the Greek women-hating ideas yet today.

The church should be a role model to the world in the way it should function--men and women working together to serve the Lord and preach the good news as Jesus commanded ALL of us.

Re: your suggestion that I may be a member of the feminist "movement" which is trying to change the view of God to a Mother-type--NO. I am not in that camp. My views are shaped by scripture ONLY. Paul was not sexist in the least! I love him! He worked alongside women pastors throughout. He had no problem with that.

Blessings

I agree with much of what you have said. I also use only scripture as my guide, or try as much as is possible for a sinful person to do so. But you know of course that Christ did not come to change cultural sins. Individuals are sinful, cultures reflect those individuals. Christ came for one purpose to save those who have faith in Him as their Lord and Savior and to destroy sin and death and reconcile us with God. The only way this world will ever truly change is for people to convert to a saving faith in Jesus Christ. Outside of that, there will never be true change as sin will always reign outside of Christ.

I am glad you like Paul and Holy Scripture then you agree with Paul that only men should hold the office of pastor.

No. Paul encouraged women and supported them and worked alongside them in their roles as pastors. We are all called to preach, and in so fulfilling the command of Jesus to preach the gospel to every creature and to make disciples of all nations, we are all called to pastor! Making disciples is pastoring.

Blessings

[Ovedya]

No. Paul encouraged women and supported them and worked alongside them in their roles as pastors. We are all called to preach, and in so fulfilling the command of Jesus to preach the gospel to every creature and to make disciples of all nations, we are all called to pastor! Making disciples is pastoring.

Blessings

Please see my last post concerning the offices of the early church. What you wrote is not correct. Although preaching the good news of salvationi n Christ Jesus is the primary commision of all Christians, doing so does not make one a "pastor." The pastorship office of which we are commonly familiar with today is equal to that of the eldership in the early church. Paul was an apostle, not a pastor. There were no pastors in the early churches. There were only Apostles, elders, and deacons.

[Snow4JC]

So what we have is another man made tradition. Men allowing women to be Pastors in churches.

Just another movement within the churches.

Snow4JC

[firehill]

The 'role' of deacon and its requirements are claimed to be clearly shown in 1 Tim to be reserved for males yet Phoebe was a deacon. I bet some would claim that Matthew 18:8 & 9 are pretty plain and clear teachings too.

[firehill]

So what we have is another man made tradition. Men allowing women to be Pastors in churches.

Just another movement within the churches.

Snow4JC

Yes, what we have here is another man made traditon which is revealed by your statement, 'Men allowing women to be Pastors in churches.', because unarguably the Bible never charges men to allow or disallow women to serve as pastors. It is the scriptures that are the final authority on all matters, not men.