Women in the Church today

[Ovedya]

As I said earlier.... only if your church is having that kind of problem.

People, man or woman, coming out of a cult, in which it was the practice to be noisy, as was the cult of Diana, and do not know what you are talking about in regards to Christianity.

For the most part, the common woman was not educated. They did not know the bible. They knew tradition and Jewish life to teach to their children.

Education exists for women today. They can know the bible. Therefore, they can teach when called by God.

God decides.

Amen! This is correct.

Paul was writing to Timothy about the Ephesian church that was having problems! Never did Paul suggest the silencing of godly women! He wanted those only above reproach. His instruction was not a universal prohibition.

Refer to 2 Timothy 2:2..."And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others." The word, "men", if Paul meant to exclude females in this would have used the word "aner" (males). But he didn't. He used the word, "anthropos", which means "persons". Persons..qualified to teach! Very deliberate on God's part, eh? Here we have a strong exhortation from God Almighty, through the Apostle Paul, for all, male AND female to teach!

One just cannot build a doctrine on one verse. We must look at the whole Word of God to get the full meaning. If a verse seems to make God unloving, or unjust or goes against the character of God in any way, we must look at it again. One cannot base a whole doctrine on an isolated verse. This is where the error comes.

More Logos Gumnasia.

[Floatingaxe]

As I said earlier.... only if your church is having that kind of problem.

People, man or woman, coming out of a cult, in which it was the practice to be noisy, as was the cult of Diana, and do not know what you are talking about in regards to Christianity.

For the most part, the common woman was not educated. They did not know the bible. They knew tradition and Jewish life to teach to their children.

Education exists for women today. They can know the bible. Therefore, they can teach when called by God.

God decides.

Amen! This is correct.

Paul was writing to Timothy about the Ephesian church that was having problems! Never did Paul suggest the silencing of godly women! He wanted those only above reproach. His instruction was not a universal prohibition.

Refer to 2 Timothy 2:2..."And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others." The word, "men", if Paul meant to exclude females in this would have used the word "aner" (males). But he didn't. He used the word, "anthropos", which means "persons". Persons..qualified to teach! Very deliberate on God's part, eh? Here we have a strong exhortation from God Almighty, through the Apostle Paul, for all, male AND female to teach!

One just cannot build a doctrine on one verse. We must look at the whole Word of God to get the full meaning. If a verse seems to make God unloving, or unjust or goes against the character of God in any way, we must look at it again. One cannot base a whole doctrine on an isolated verse. This is where the error comes.

More Logos Gumnasia.

Excuse me Royal Member of the Servant Group! We are having a good debate here.

[IslandRose]

If the problem was the educational level of the women back then, why did the Lord choose to use those Galilean fishermen? Surely he could have found a few ladies who were more educated than they were. And why didn't Paul write, the women shouldn't speak unless they are well educated.

Educational level had nothing to do with it then, any more then it does now. The Lord equips those he calls, but he has clearly spoken in His Word about the way he wants things done.

God has spoken, and he has said that women are not to have authority over the men in the church. He has given women their own responsibilities, their own ministries. I am not jealous of the job he has give my husband, I am too busy serving Him in the ministry he has given me, to try to step into my husbands ministry.

[Ovedya]

As I said earlier.... only if your church is having that kind of problem.

People, man or woman, coming out of a cult, in which it was the practice to be noisy, as was the cult of Diana, and do not know what you are talking about in regards to Christianity.

For the most part, the common woman was not educated. They did not know the bible. They knew tradition and Jewish life to teach to their children.

Education exists for women today. They can know the bible. Therefore, they can teach when called by God.

God decides.

Amen! This is correct.

Paul was writing to Timothy about the Ephesian church that was having problems! Never did Paul suggest the silencing of godly women! He wanted those only above reproach. His instruction was not a universal prohibition.

Refer to 2 Timothy 2:2..."And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others." The word, "men", if Paul meant to exclude females in this would have used the word "aner" (males). But he didn't. He used the word, "anthropos", which means "persons". Persons..qualified to teach! Very deliberate on God's part, eh? Here we have a strong exhortation from God Almighty, through the Apostle Paul, for all, male AND female to teach!

One just cannot build a doctrine on one verse. We must look at the whole Word of God to get the full meaning. If a verse seems to make God unloving, or unjust or goes against the character of God in any way, we must look at it again. One cannot base a whole doctrine on an isolated verse. This is where the error comes.

More Logos Gumnasia.

Excuse me Royal Member of the Servant Group! We are having a good debate here.

I agree.

[firehill]

So what we have is another man made tradition. Men allowing women to be Pastors in churches.

Just another movement within the churches.

Snow4JC

Yes, what we have here is another man made traditon which is revealed by your statement, 'Men allowing women to be Pastors in churches.', because unarguably the Bible never charges men to allow or disallow women to serve as pastors. It is the scriptures that are the final authority on all matters, not men.

"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assert authority over a man" What does that statement mean to you?

Paul was teaching against Gnosticism.

http://www.churchofgoddfw.com/women/suffer.shtml

"Fighting False Doctrines

Paul left Timothy behind in Ephesus to stop false teachers; 1Tim 1:3. The church there was fighting many false doctrines from the religion of Artemis because Ephesus was the world center of her worship. The mystery religions and Gnostic beliefs shared many of these same beliefs.

Here are five of these false doctrines widely believed in Ephesus:

1. Eve was created before Adam and received "special knowledge" when she ate the forbidden fruit.

2. Female "Mediators" passed this "special knowledge" on to men during sexual rites featuring intercourse.

3. Mediator women mixing sex with worship were called "Authenia" from the Greek word "Authenteo".

4. Warrior women called Amazons. who were superior to men, founded the city of Ephesus and set up the worship of the fertility goddess Artemis.

5. Artemis, whose name meant SAFE, could keep a woman safe during the dangers of childbirth.

Paul is arming Timothy against every one of these evil doctrines! He warns him in 1Tim 1:20 against two teachers who blaspheme, one a female named Hymenaeus meaning "Wedding Song" and the other a male named Alexander. The doctrine of female Mediators is countered in 1Tim 2:5, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men...". A few verses later Paul moves to stop female teachers such as Hymenaeus by instructing, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to "AUTHENTEIN" a man, but to be in silence."

A Woman is not to Teach What?!

The entire King James phrase "to usurp authority over" is incorrectly translated from one Greek word, "AUTHENTEIN". This word is used only once in the New Testament, and is called by an early instructor, "a coarse word". The "ein" ending tells us that it is the "to" form of a verb made from Authenteo, Strong's 831. A noun form of the same word is "Authenia" which is the term for the women "Mediators" mixing intercourse with religion! Paul is saying he won't allow women to teach or to ____ a man! Insert a coarse sexual word, which is our closest word to the Greek word "Authentein". At the time of Paul it meant to have sex as a part of worship--a joining of a man with a female mediator who represented the goddess being worshipped.

In the very next verse Paul stops the doctrine of Eve being created first, "For Adam was formed first, then Eve." Next he points out that Eve was deceived, not given special knowledge. The final verse proves that Paul is countering evil doctrines!

Safely through Childbirth

1Tim.2:15 should be translated "But she (a woman) will be safe throughout the childbearing if they (her and her husband) continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control." Paul uses the word "safe" not the word "saved" as it is usually translated. The Phillips Bible comes closest with, "Women will come safely through childbirth..." Remember the meaning of Artemis' name? It meant SAFE. Paul is making a play on words that God keeps women safe-- not Artemis!

We have studied the context, the backgrounds of Corinth and Ephesus, the evil doctrines, and peeked into the Greek text with modern software. The simple conclusions are that in Corinth Paul was stopping pagan women from posing as prophets and demanding that they keep silent, and in Ephesus he was fighting women "Mediators" teaching evil doctrines. Neither of these two passages of scripture can rightfully be used to limit Christian women serving God however He directs them."

Even Acts speaks of the cult of Diana (Artemis)

ACTS 19:23-41

About that time there arose a great disturbance about the Way. A silversmith named Demetrius, who made silver shrines of ARTEMIS, brought in no little business for the skilled workers there. He called them together, along with the workers in related trades, and said, 'You know, my friends that we receive a good income from this business. And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in EPHESUS and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that gods made by human hands are no gods at all. There is danger not only that our trade will lose its good name, but also that THE TEMPLE OF THE GREAT GODDESS ARTEMIS will be discredited; and the GODDESS HERSELF, WHO IS WORSHIPED THROUGHOUT the province of Asia and THE WORLD, will be robbed of her DIVINE majesty.' When they heard this, they were furious and began shouting: 'Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!'... ACTS 19:23-28

http://www.amazonation.com/artemisI.html

"Today, Artemis is still seen, especially in the place she started from, ancient Greece and Anatolia, now Greece, Turkey, and the Aegean islands. On Zakynthos...Artemis was also connected with sex, reproduction, and birth, three of the most instinctual experiences humans have..."

A simple search on Yahoo alone brings up over 1,000 websites about the goddess.

1 Timothy 1:3-5

"As I urge you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in EPHESUS so that you may command persons not to teach false doctrines any longer or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies."

ACTS 19:35

"The city clerk quited the crowed and said: 'People of Ephesus, doesn't all the WORLD know that the city of Ephesus is the gaurdian of the temple of the great Artemis?

The internet world is replete with information about her.

You have to take into consideration THAT particular church, THAT time, THAT situation.... this is never meant to be for all time in every church.... only those with that particular problem.

Paul was teaching against the cult of Diana. It is not a mystery why sister Phoebe was a deacon. In the 1 Tim letter it says 'I do not permit a woman to teach or to assert authority over a man', and in 3:18 that a

[Ovedya]

Paul was teaching against Gnosticism.

Yes he was....but not in that passage. And even if he was, the correction that a woman can not teach or assert authority over a man applied and it should be taken as a correction to the issue of a woman teaching or asserting over a man. Make sense? In other words, it still wouldn't matter.

Paul was teaching against the cult of Diana. It is not a mystery why sister Phoebe was a deacon. In the 1 Tim letter it says 'I do not permit a woman to teach or to assert authority over a man', and in 3:18 that a

[firehill]

The office of deacon did not include the defining of church doctrine or of teaching church doctrine.

Am I to understand you as saying that only men are to define 'church doctrine' and teach the 'church doctrine' that they define? 'Church doctrine' is not in the scriptures. I see the concept of institutionalism again here at play.

[Ovedya]

The office of deacon did not include the defining of church doctrine or of teaching church doctrine.

Am I to understand you as saying that only men are to define 'church doctrine' and teach the 'church doctrine' that they define? 'Church doctrine' is not in the scriptures. I see the concept of institutionalism again here at play.

The first century church continued steadfastly in the teaching and the fellowship of the apostles (Acts 2:42)

In Acts 15 it was the brothers (The leading ones, the elders) who requested Paul and Barnabas to go to Jerusalem and seek fellowship from the apostles and elders to help settle the issue of requiring Gentile converts to obey the laws of Moses (Acts 15:1-21). This issue was thoroughly discussed and decided upon through the one accord in fellowship between the apostles and elders, (vv.22-34), and the result was a decree that went out to the churches through Paul, which served to strengthen and build the church (Acts 16:4-5)

The teachings of the apostles are called "healthy teachings", and they who hold to them are called "faithful" (Titus 1:9)

Finally, to teach in the Greek is Didasko (From which we get the English word "didactic" btw). It means "to impart instruction, to deliver a discourse." In tyerms of word ussage in the New Testament it is mostly found in the book of Mark wherever the Lord Jesus taught something. In terms of the church to teach is to deliver a discourse related to the doctrines - or established orthodox teachings - of the church. It is also directly related to the teaching of the Scriptures. In 2 Tim. 3:16 the word commonly translated as "doctrine" is actually a form of Didasko. In some translations of the Bible the word is rendered "teaching."

[firehill]

Finally, to teach in the Greek is Didasko (From which we get the English word "didactic" btw). It means "to impart instruction, to deliver a discourse."

[Ovedya]

Finally, to teach in the Greek is Didasko (From which we get the English word "didactic" btw). It means "to impart instruction, to deliver a discourse."