Women in the Church today

[firehill]

Finally, to teach in the Greek is Didasko (From which we get the English word "didactic" btw). It means "to impart instruction, to deliver a discourse."

[Ovedya]

The verse does not grant permission for women to teach. Otherwise Paul would have been contradicting himself.

The verse is not even close to speaking about 'granting permission' for people to teach. I see the concept of institutionalism at play here again, women are people. Paul whom wrote the verse is not contradicting the other letters he wrote to other churches.

First, these verses are from letters written by Paul to his co-worker Timothy.

Second, Paul's ussage of a single word which denotes "people" does not mean or indicate that he permitted women to teach. It would have been a contradiction if he had intended to mean that women could teach. He clearly wrote that women could not teach. Either Paul contradicted himself or you are making an assumption about what he meant in the verse.

[Floatingaxe]

There is nowhere in any of Paul's letters to Timothy where is mentioned that a man has authority over a woman. The truth is, that no gender has authority over another. We are called by Paul to be set apart from the world's pattern!

"So Jesus called them together and said, "You know that in this world kings are tyrants, and officials lord it over the people beneath them. 43But among you it should be quite different. Whoever wants to be a leader among you must be your servant, 44and whoever wants to be first must be the slave of all. 45For even I, the Son of Man, came here not to be served but to serve others, and to give my life as a ransom for many." Mark 10:42-45

We would do well to remember that.

As far as 2 Timothy 2:2 is concerned, Paul used the word "anthropos" (people, persons) as I mentioned earlier, instead of the usual, "aner" (males), to settle this very issue! I think that is very important, seeing as God is the one who wrote the Word. He would see to it, of course that each word here is as He wanted it to mean. People = everyone! Otherwise, Paul missed a great opportunity to really instruct men to be Lord and master over women in the church! Of course, he didn't miss anything! He was simply conveying to Timothy to remember to use reliable PEOPLE, as some people, including women were being disruptive.

[Ovedya]

There is nowhere in any of Paul's letters to Timothy where is mentioned that a man has authority over a woman.

Sure. Nowhere.:

"But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:3)

"For a husband is head of the wife as also Christ is Head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the Body." (Eph. 5:23)

[KeilanS]

This is kind of a topic that bugs me. The bible does seem a little bit biased towards Men (treating women as subordiante) and I don't agree with this. I can't believe that Jesus Christ would have died on the cross for everyone, just to turn around and say that Women are subordinate.

I'm really not sure how scripture can back this up, but it is my belief that women should be treated equally to men in basically all ways. I think that we were created in the image of God, who is neither male nor female, so there must be some sort of common grounds in how our souls work.

[Floatingaxe]

This is kind of a topic that bugs me. The bible does seem a little bit biased towards Men (treating women as subordiante) and I don't agree with this. I can't believe that Jesus Christ would have died on the cross for everyone, just to turn around and say that Women are subordinate.

I'm really not sure how scripture can back this up, but it is my belief that women should be treated equally to men in basically all ways. I think that we were created in the image of God, who is neither male nor female, so there must be some sort of common grounds in how our souls work.

Absolutely!

[firehill]

There is nowhere in any of Paul's letters to Timothy where is mentioned that a man has authority over a woman.

Sure. Nowhere.:

"But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:3)

"For a husband is head of the wife as also Christ is Head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the Body." (Eph. 5:23)

1) God is not the authority of Christ since He IS God and neither is the Father since the Father and Christ are one.

2) It is not even written that the Father is the 'head' of Christ notice.

3) The hotly debated word kephale translated 'head' does not mean 'authority' but arche does. Arche means 'head' in terms of leadership and point of origin and Paul used forms of it but not regarding women and men.

4) Even in the Septuagint which Paul was familar with the Hebrew word rosh is translated kephale when it meant "physical head' but when it meant the likes of 'ruler' or 'chief' it is translated arche. Paul then could have easily chosen many other words that plainly mean 'authority' but he did not.

5) Besides Christ cannot be the authority of every male while not the authority of every female unless the argument is that 1 Cor 11:3 is a hierarchy in which case it is actualy closer to chronological sequence, i.e., man, woman, Christ.

6) Also the claimed hierarchy is upsidedown notice. If it were a hierarchy it could have easily been written, 'God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman.'

7) Most importantly, kephale is never translated as 'authority'.

[Floatingaxe]

There is nowhere in any of Paul's letters to Timothy where is mentioned that a man has authority over a woman.

Sure. Nowhere.:

"But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:3)

"For a husband is head of the wife as also Christ is Head of the church, He Himself being the Savior of the Body." (Eph. 5:23)

1) God is not the authority of Christ since He IS God and neither is the Father since the Father and Christ are one.

2) It is not even written that the Father is the 'head' of Christ notice.

3) The hotly debated word kephale translated 'head' does not mean 'authority' but arche does. Arche means 'head' in terms of leadership and point of origin and Paul used forms of it but not regarding women and men.

4) Even in the Septuagint which Paul was familar with the Hebrew word rosh is translated kephale when it meant "physical head' but when it meant the likes of 'ruler' or 'chief' it is translated arche. Paul then could have easily chosen many other words that plainly mean 'authority' but he did not.

5) Besides Christ cannot be the authority of every male while not the authority of every female unless the argument is that 1 Cor 11:3 is a hierarchy in which case it is actualy closer to chronological sequence, i.e., man, woman, Christ.

6) Also the claimed hierarchy is upsidedown notice. If it were a hierarchy it could have easily been written, 'God is the head of Christ, Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman.'

7) Most importantly, kephale is never translated as 'authority'.

You are correct! The term for "head" was actually the term for "origin/source" as in the river is the "head" of a great sea. That is precisely what Paul was communicating! NOT hierarchy at all.

Blessings!

Edited July 26, 2006 by Floatingaxe

[Ovedya]

This is kind of a topic that bugs me. The bible does seem a little bit biased towards Men (treating women as subordiante) and I don't agree with this. I can't believe that Jesus Christ would have died on the cross for everyone, just to turn around and say that Women are subordinate.

I'm really not sure how scripture can back this up, but it is my belief that women should be treated equally to men in basically all ways. I think that we were created in the image of God, who is neither male nor female, so there must be some sort of common grounds in how our souls work.

Correction: Man was created in the image and likeness of God. That's two aspects - inward and outward. God is a man.

[billie]

God's a man? I thought God's a spirit?