Women in the Church today

[Floatingaxe]

The meaning of phobeo has indeed it

[Floatingaxe]

I am not dishonest in any way!

If you were not dishonest in your study then I highly doubt you would believe that women could hold authority in the church.

That is the point I have been making, is you accuse of us being close minded but never take into account that we have most likely studied this issue more than you.

You judge erroneously.

[Floatingaxe]

Phobeo:

"1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)

a) to put to flight, to flee

b) to fear, be afraid

1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm

a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences

b) of those struck with amazement

2) to fear, be afraid of one

3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)

c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience"

Blue Letter Bible

[apothanein kerdos]

The meaning of phobeo has indeed it

[apothanein kerdos]

Phobeo:

"1) to put to flight by terrifying (to scare away)

a) to put to flight, to flee

b) to fear, be afraid

1) to be struck with fear, to be seized with alarm

a) of those startled by strange sights or occurrences

b) of those struck with amazement

2) to fear, be afraid of one

3) to fear (i.e. hesitate) to do something (for fear of harm)

c) to reverence, venerate, to treat with deference or reverential obedience"

Blue Letter Bible

With your vast knowledge of the Greek language, could you please show me how the construct of this word works in the sentence and what we are to draw out of it?

[Smalcald]

Bizarrely, I find myself agreeing with floatingax on this one, God is beyond our conceptions of male and female, God is both and more. Why is there no marriage in heaven? If there is no marriage there is no need for males and females as all are one in Christ. The only reason we have men and women in this world is that it is God's plan to produce children and to have a lifetime mate and helper in marriage, neither of these exists in heaven, thus no sexes.

However the bible still is clear, only men are to be pastors.

haha! Bizarrely?

Women can be pastors! There always were and always will be. I don't think the Holy Spirit checks out the genitals before He decides to gift a person with the gift of Pastor!

Well we will just disagree on this, although I agree with you on other things, and I do think that we agree that God is all gender's, for we are all one in Christ, from Galatians . So we are joined in that for sure.

For me though and for most Christians throughout history, we have read that when Paul says in the Holy Bible, that these are the requirements for a pastor and then Paul specifically lists them, one of them being that the pastor be male, we just accept that. Now certainly we can and have argued about the meaning of service, authority, leadership etc, and I do think we can look at alternative meanings for those particularly in marriage. But, those are not the issues when we get direct instruction about who is to be an overseer in the Church, we have those specifically listed and there is simply no good way of getting around them, beyond simply ignoring those passages.

But sure women are pastors today and have been in the past, and there are also sexually active openly gay pastors today, and divorced pastors and pastors who are polygamous, and they all honestly believe they were called by God to be pastors.

[firehill]

For me though and for most Christians throughout history, we have read that when Paul says in the Holy Bible, that these are the requirements for a pastor and then Paul specifically lists them, one of them being that the pastor be male, we just accept that. ...

The passages do not say 'the pastor be male'! Rather that the overseer 'he must be faithful to his wife' and also that a 'deacon' too must 'be faithfulto his wife' in which case the Scriptures written about Phoebe, a deacon, not a deconess, shows us that the phrase 'must be faithful to his wife' does not mean 'he must be male'.

[apothanein kerdos]

For me though and for most Christians throughout history, we have read that when Paul says in the Holy Bible, that these are the requirements for a pastor and then Paul specifically lists them, one of them being that the pastor be male, we just accept that. ...

The passages do not say 'the pastor be male'! Rather that the overseer 'he must be faithful to his wife' and also that a 'deacon' too must 'be faithfulto his wife' in which case the Scriptures written about Phoebe, a deacon, not a deconess, shows us that the phrase 'must be faithful to his wife' does not mean 'he must be male'.

So the Bible never says that a woman is not suppose to have authority over a man?

[Smalcald]

For me though and for most Christians throughout history, we have read that when Paul says in the Holy Bible, that these are the requirements for a pastor and then Paul specifically lists them, one of them being that the pastor be male, we just accept that. ...

The passages do not say 'the pastor be male'! Rather that the overseer 'he must be faithful to his wife' and also that a 'deacon' too must 'be faithfulto his wife' in which case the Scriptures written about Phoebe, a deacon, not a deconess, shows us that the phrase 'must be faithful to his wife' does not mean 'he must be male'.

Nah, that is too much twisting and squirming to get the answer you want which fits our modern sensibilities. It is a direct question Paul was answering and it is very hard to get around. Only men had wives, it is not complex. I think when we have a direct question addressed, that being what are the qualifications of a Bishop or overseer, we should follow them, it says husband of one wife, it refers to these people as a HE consistently. It is direct they are to be male if you want to follow these passages of scripture.

The fact is Paul also said women should not have authority over men in the church, which fits what he was saying about who should be an overseer and further when speaking directly of a Bishop he says the Bishop should be the husband of one wife, and this is said in several places, in different books of the bible. It is obvious that these people should be male. It is really hard to twist it back around because of Phoebe. I would like to look at the case of Phoebe though, that would be an interesting study.

But this has nothing to do with things like teaching, evangelism, administrations, prophet, etc. Also it has nothing to do with the sex of God, which I think brings God down far too much to think in those terms.

I just feel it is important to observe the direct meaning of scripture as best we can.

[firehill]

For me though and for most Christians throughout history, we have read that when Paul says in the Holy Bible, that these are the requirements for a pastor and then Paul specifically lists them, one of them being that the pastor be male, we just accept that. ...

The passages do not say 'the pastor be male'! Rather that the overseer 'he must be faithful to his wife' and also that a 'deacon' too must 'be faithfulto his wife' in which case the Scriptures written about Phoebe, a deacon, not a deconess, shows us that the phrase 'must be faithful to his wife' does not mean 'he must be male'.

So the Bible never says that a woman is not suppose to have authority over a man?

I already posted regarding this matter.

http://www.churchofgoddfw.com/women/suffer.shtml

"Fighting False Doctrines

Paul left Timothy behind in Ephesus to stop false teachers; 1Tim 1:3. The church there was fighting many false doctrines from the religion of Artemis because Ephesus was the world center of her worship. The mystery religions and Gnostic beliefs shared many of these same beliefs.

Here are five of these false doctrines widely believed in Ephesus:

1. Eve was created before Adam and received "special knowledge" when she ate the forbidden fruit.

2. Female "Mediators" passed this "special knowledge" on to men during sexual rites featuring intercourse.

3. Mediator women mixing sex with worship were called "Authenia" from the Greek word "Authenteo".

4. Warrior women called Amazons. who were superior to men, founded the city of Ephesus and set up the worship of the fertility goddess Artemis.

5. Artemis, whose name meant SAFE, could keep a woman safe during the dangers of childbirth.

Paul is arming Timothy against every one of these evil doctrines! He warns him in 1Tim 1:20 against two teachers who blaspheme, one a female named Hymenaeus meaning "Wedding Song" and the other a male named Alexander. The doctrine of female Mediators is countered in 1Tim 2:5, "For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men...". A few verses later Paul moves to stop female teachers such as Hymenaeus by instructing, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to "AUTHENTEIN" a man, but to be in silence."

A Woman is not to Teach What?!

The entire King James phrase "to usurp authority over" is incorrectly translated from one Greek word, "AUTHENTEIN". This word is used only once in the New Testament, and is called by an early instructor, "a coarse word". The "ein" ending tells us that it is the "to" form of a verb made from Authenteo, Strong's 831. A noun form of the same word is "Authenia" which is the term for the women "Mediators" mixing intercourse with religion! Paul is saying he won't allow women to teach or to ____ a man! Insert a coarse sexual word, which is our closest word to the Greek word "Authentein". At the time of Paul it meant to have sex as a part of worship--a joining of a man with a female mediator who represented the goddess being worshipped.

In the very next verse Paul stops the doctrine of Eve being created first, "For Adam was formed first, then Eve." Next he points out that Eve was deceived, not given special knowledge. The final verse proves that Paul is countering evil doctrines!'