Judgment Day's "Real Evidence"

[sylvan3]

Real, scientific evidence for God, including the Christian God, does not exist. I think this is quite clear because people realize that religion is accepted on faith, which does not equate to fact.

My question is:

Does the "real" evidence finally come from God on the supposed Judgment Day? Please remember that many nonbelievers exist because of a lack of scientific evidence for the existence of God. Why would God withold real evidence that would enable people to believe in him until a supposed Judgment Day? How is this consistent with a loving God? This sounds like trickery to me. Why would he expect people to believe things without scientific evidence?

Some will say that the Bible is the "real" evidence, but I will say, once again, that Biblical "evidence" can only be accepted on faith. Faith is not fact.

Some will also say that nature is "evidence" for God, but that very same nature is viewed or experienced by people of all faiths. It does not establish the validity of any one religion.

[Leonard]

Come, come, come. Any open minded person must confess that plenty of 'evidence' exists to indicate there is a God. You yourself have been shown reams of it here.

That doesn't mean you have to accept the idea of a God, any more than I have to accept the evidence for macroevolution. But to say there is NO evidence shows such a complete close-mindedness that there is simply no sense in further discussion.

You might put a different interpretation on the evidence presented, or martial arguments against the evidence, but you simply cannot say there is 'no' evidence. The claim is simply subrational. You sound like many Christians arguing desperately against evolution. Once you enter the nonrational, mystical realm by denying the very existence of that which you have actually been shown; ....well, I'm sure you've seen that form of religiosity.

And it is THAT VERY FORM OF RELIGIOSITY which you are now engaging in. Surely you can see your own pretense? Again I tell you you are being intellectually dishonest. A highly intelligent person does not retreat into such illogic and subrational claims unless he is deliberately holding on desperately to something he truly values, and feels is being deeply threatened. Clearly, as I said at the outset, the real issue here is you own internal anger against God.

[sylvan3]

Come, come, come. Any open minded person must confess that plenty of 'evidence' exists to indicate there is a God. You yourself have been shown reams of it here.

That doesn't mean you have to accept the idea of a God, any more than I have to accept the evidence for macroevolution. But to say there is NO evidence shows such a complete close-mindedness that there is simply no sense in further discussion.

My post stated "scientific evidence". Your response merely stated "evidence"--there is a difference. You cannot prove God's existence empirically in the same way you can prove a certain sack of potatoes weighs ten pounds or that the human heart has four chambers. That's why I said that religion is faith-based as opposed to fact-based. (Also, if you have scientific evidence of the existence of 950-year-old men, and talking snakes and donkeys, I'll be happy to listen).

Therefore, the thrust of my argument is: When will God provide empirical evidence (or to use my word, "real" evidence) of his existence? If it is Judgment Day, why then? Why not when we are on earth? The fact that it might be Judgment Day has rather large implications since at that point it will theoretically be too late.

You might put a different interpretation on the evidence presented, or martial arguments against the evidence, but you simply cannot say there is 'no' evidence. The claim is simply subrational. You sound like many Christians arguing desperately against evolution. Once you enter the nonrational, mystical realm by denying the very existence of that which you have actually been shown; ....well, I'm sure you've seen that form of religiosity.

Christians debating evolution please take note of the above.

And it is THAT VERY FORM OF RELIGIOSITY which you are now engaging in. Surely you can see your own pretense? Again I tell you you are being intellectually dishonest. A highly intelligent person does not retreat into such illogic and subrational claims unless he is deliberately holding on desperately to something he truly values, and feels is being deeply threatened. Clearly, as I said at the outset, the real issue here is you own internal anger against God.

Once again you show the hauteur that I have come to expect from a Leonard post. You come off like, "I am intelligent, I have to be right". For example, you need to be "challenged" because--we are to imply--you are so intelligent. You give "Bible lessons" because--we are to imply--you are so intelligent. I have seen this. Possibly, you would like to list all of your degrees and the institutions where you have taught.

Calling me dishonest or angry at God is to, once again, force a conclusion from which there is no evidence. Apparently, you believe that this gives you some sort of an advantage in the argument. I see it as a wrong tactic that shows me you don't know what you are talking about. All of that education to waste!

Edited July 26, 2006 by sylvan3

[Guest Gamin]

There is plenty of evidence.

Creation alone speaks of his handy work, and those who will not see that will be without excuse at the judgement day.

The word of God clearly states this truth....Psalms 19:1- Romans 1:20

Then we have the personal witness, for even before we knew we needed him, he sought us.

I know he did me.

As a child he made himself known to me, in a personal way.

I believe he knock's on each heart, and it is then up to us to open the door, and say yes Lord, please come in.

God already know's who will, and who wont,but he is not willing that any should perish.

If he knocks today do not turn away, for the time is short, and today is the day of salvation.

There may not be a tomorrow for some.

Say yes to the one who loves you so.

[sylvan3]

There is plenty of evidence.

Creation alone speaks of his handy work, and those who will not see that will be without excuse at the judgement day.

The word of God clearly states this truth....Psalms 19:1- Romans 1:20

Then we have the personal witness, for even before we knew we needed him, he sought us.

I know he did me.

As a child he made himself known to me, in a personal way.

I believe he knock's on each heart, and it is then up to us to open the door, and say yes Lord, please come in.

God already know's who will, and who wont,but he is not willing that any should perish.

If he knocks today do not turn away, for the time is short, and today is the day of salvation.

There may not be a tomorrow for some.

Say yes to the one who loves you so.

Creationism is a hotly debated subject. Even if there were a creator, it wouldn't prove that it was the Christian God.

As for Judgment Day, what happens if the God you worshipped isn't there and it is another one? Assuming there are 500 religions in the world, you dismiss 499, I dismiss 500--we are not that far from each other!

As for personal witness, I am happy for you. I would inform you that people from other religions or no religion at all also have positive personal experiences that validate their beliefs.

[Arjuous]

Come, come, come. Any open minded person must confess that plenty of 'evidence' exists to indicate there is a God. You yourself have been shown reams of it here.

No, no evidence, only theistic conjecture. But I admit it's perfectly rational to believe that there is a god(for how could we have something from nothing), just as it is equally rational not to believe in god (no evidence has ever been found of his existence), but you can't assume that because that god COULD exist, that everything you think about god IS true.

That doesn't mean you have to accept the idea of a God, any more than I have to accept the evidence for macroevolution. But to say there is NO evidence shows such a complete close-mindedness that there is simply no sense in further discussion.

Everything in this world is ruled by scientific principles. If you wish to invoke God as the author of those principles, in and of itself it's fine, but you can't dismiss the answers we find by examining those principles (which you assume to be divinely created) because it disagrees with your initial hypothesis. Macroevolution is based on empirical data, and its a fact. I can say that with full confidence precisely because I KNOW you can replicate the behavior, study it extensively, and come to the same conclusion, as many have done. You, on the other hand, offer no evidence whatsoever, other than the childlike unquestioned affection you have for the voice in your head.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Arjuous

[billie]

Voice in your head?

[littlejoe]

My friend as a Christian I believe that God created mankind, since that includes scientist for me that means He also gave them the knowlege for their given fields. I know that sounds very simple, but I am reminded what my instrutor told me before I began to teach the men under me in the serivice. Keep it simple stupid. You are right about faith. The bible tells us it is impossible to please God without faith. It also tells us it is a gift from God. I don't ask that you or any other person believe it. I just state that I believe it. It would be interesting to ask how many scientist believe there is no God. All or half or none at all. Since you don't believe in God why ask for Evidence ? love in Christ littlejoe

[Arjuous]

My friend as a Christian I believe that God created mankind, since that includes scientist for me that means He also gave them the knowlege for their given fields. I know that sounds very simple, but I am reminded what my instrutor told me before I began to teach the men under me in the serivice. Keep it simple stupid. You are right about faith. The bible tells us it is impossible to please God without faith. It also tells us it is a gift from God. I don't ask that you or any other person believe it. I just state that I believe it. It would be interesting to ask how many scientist believe there is no God. All or half or none at all. Since you don't believe in God why ask for Evidence ? love in Christ littlejoe

The nonbeliever crowd of scientists? Its around 96% atheistic.

[EricH]

Everything in this world is ruled by scientific principles.

So you are saying that every thing that has ever occured can be explained on the basis of scientific principles alone?