Judgment Day's "Real Evidence"

[sylvan3]

However, any insight I might have into your internalized anger against the god of your own imagination--which oddly, you identify with the Christian God--is not the result of formal education, but rather the preparation of more than 30 years of being in the Ministry, and counseling vast numbers of persons from every conceivable walk of life. I know that for someone who espouses a Materialist/Logical Positivist view, it is difficult to admit, but you have entered into the realm of shear religiosity and unfalsifiable mysticism.

Leonard,

There are three points I would like to make here.

1) This thread is not a debate about whether or not I have "internalized anger toward God" or "intellectual dishonesty", or "religiosity" or "unfalsifiable mysticism" (wow--is that a laugher!). You have resorted to this red herring several times in previous threads and circumstances.

2) Even if it were a debate about that, I can assure you that I am smart enough--and secure enough--to know that psychology is a VERY inexact science and you couldn't possibly be close in your assessment, which is based on reading my posts (which merely challenge the traditional concept of God, particularly as presented in the Bible). Besides, how can someone be angry at a supposed deity that I consider to be the figment of other's imaginations?

I seriously question your tactics in this regard. Do you really think I am going to accept your conclusion when I KNOW it is completely wrong and based on virtually nothing? Possibly, you have used this in your 30 years of counselling, but you are not going to do my thinking in this situation.

3) You might convince me of some serious perspicacity if, since you are supposedly good at understanding the anger issue, you were able to rationally explain how a perfect, omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipresent God can get "angry" at his creations, whose moves he would have to know ahead of time. Maybe on another thread.

Edited July 28, 2006 by sylvan3

[GodsJul]

Does God Exist?

Did God create everything that exists?

Does evil exist? Did God create evil?

A University professor at a well known institution of higher learning challenged his students with this question. "Did God create everything that exists?" A student bravely replied, "Yes he did!"

"God created everything?" The professor asked.

"Yes sir, he certainly did," the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything; then God created evil.

And, since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are, then we can assume God is evil."

The student became quiet and did not answer the professor's

hypothetical definition. The professor, quite pleased with himself, boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "May I ask you a question, professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The other students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat.

Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy.

Absolute zero (-460 F) is the total absence of heat; and all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact, we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You can not measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct?

Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course, as I have already said.

We see it everyday. It is in the daily examples of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist, sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat, or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

True story and FACTS added for your enjoyment....

The young man's name ...by the way was......Albert Einstein

Julia

[billie]

Julia, that was awesome! Thanks!

[Floatingaxe]

Eureka! God bless you, Jul!

[sylvan3]

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Thank you for presenting those Biblical verses.

Now, back to the thread. Can anyone give rational reasons as to why God would deny scientific proof of his existence to us while in this world only to apparently present it in the next?

[Guest Gamin]

God doesnt need scientific proof that he exist.

Why should the creater of all things expect the created to validify his existence?

Thats like the chair saying to the carpenter prove to me you are.

How silly!

Again I would say...Look around you .

Everything your eye see's screams of a creator.....

Even the fact that you appose his existance proves he is.......why appose someone or something that doesnt exist?

I would like to challenge you, before you go any further, to read through the Bible, line upon line, all the way through....

Then come and tell us why you believe there is no God.

Your knowledge, and learning has made you blind to the truth, but God love's you, and died for your sin just as he has our's.

Why spend eternity in hell, when God offer's eternal life....your playing right into the hands of satan who hate's you, and desire's your

eternal judgement, because his is sealed already.

You still have a choice.

Also a reminder....

Jesus is a personal Saviour.

No man can convince another if he doesnt want to be convinced, that there is a god.

But God has said to Jeremiah, a prophet that feared God;

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."

God know's the truth of your heart,whether you really want to know the truth ,or not......

There is also the word that tells us, there are those who cry unto him and he will not hearken unto them, for he knows the very thought and intent of the heart.

Only you and God knows, so which is it?

Comes back doesnt it to your free choice.

The answer is in what you do about it..... Your choice....will show the true heart.

Edited July 28, 2006 by Gamin

[Leonard]

You are quite correct that God cannot be 'weighed' like a 10 pound sack of spuds! Neither can an electric current. Yet we believe in electricity because we see it working.

In exactly the same way, we see God working. There are of course people who will deny it is God, just as there are (I've MET THEM!!!) people who don't believe it is 'electricity' that turns on a light bulb, but rather, demonic forces! What YOU do not see as 'scientific evidence' I and approximately 2.3 billion other people (including lots of professional scientists) DO see as 'scientific evidence.'

That is exactly why I tell you that you are retreating into the mystical, unfalsifiable religious realm with your claims.

To another poster here, I must add: Any claim that EVERYTHING can be explained within the narrow confines of 'science' is utterly absurd! Very, very few reputable scientists would agree. That is why there is a whole field called 'Philosophy' and 'Metaphysics'. Your statement shows you are not familiar with Immanuel Kant.

[billie]

Yeah, like Julia said, Albert Einstein!

[sylvan3]

You are quite correct that God cannot be 'weighed' like a 10 pound sack of spuds! Neither can an electric current. Yet we believe in electricity because we see it working.

I never said God cannot be weighed like a sack of potatoes (thus implying that his "weight" was some sort of issue). That is a complete misinterpretation (for those keeping score, please read post #3). I stated that one cannot scientifically prove God's existence like one can scientifically prove a certain sack of potatoes weighs about ten pounds or that a heart has four chambers. Your educational bona fides show me that this distinction shouldn't be hard for you to comprehend.

In exactly the same way, we see God working. There are of course people who will deny it is God, just as there are (I've MET THEM!!!) people who don't believe it is 'electricity' that turns on a light bulb, but rather, demonic forces! What YOU do not see as 'scientific evidence' I and approximately 2.3 billion other people (including lots of professional scientists) DO see as 'scientific evidence.

You mean you have scientific proof of God's existence? The Christian God too? Does that mean that we don't have to call religion faith anymore? Does this mean you have proof of talking snakes too? You need to contact Larry King. I think he will want you as a guest--this is big news.

(Also, even if you did have scientific proof that God is "working", it would not necessarily be evidence that it is the Christian God. You would then have the chore of scientifically proving that others' faiths are incorrect and yours is correct. I am quite sure that you know this--I state this for other readers' edification.)

That is exactly why I tell you that you are retreating into the mystical, unfalsifiable religious realm with your claims.

Nope, not true. I would gladly abandon any beliefs that I have if there were good, scientific reasons to do this. However, I happen to know bunk when I see it.

To another poster here, I must add: Any claim that EVERYTHING can be explained within the narrow confines of 'science' is utterly absurd! Very, very few reputable scientists would agree. That is why there is a whole field called 'Philosophy' and 'Metaphysics'. Your statement shows you are not familiar with Immanuel Kant.

You shouldn't use the word "absurd" until you show me proof that 950-year-old men, talking snakes, and a perfect deity that "repents" that he made his creations, exists. This is what I mean about bunk.

Edited July 29, 2006 by sylvan3

[go777go]

Real, scientific evidence for God, including the Christian God, does not exist. I think this is quite clear because people realize that religion is accepted on faith, which does not equate to fact.

My question is:

Does the "real" evidence finally come from God on the supposed Judgment Day? Please remember that many nonbelievers exist because of a lack of scientific evidence for the existence of God. Why would God withold real evidence that would enable people to believe in him until a supposed Judgment Day? How is this consistent with a loving God? This sounds like trickery to me. Why would he expect people to believe things without scientific evidence?

Some will say that the Bible is the "real" evidence, but I will say, once again, that Biblical "evidence" can only be accepted on faith. Faith is not fact.

Some will also say that nature is "evidence" for God, but that very same nature is viewed or experienced by people of all faiths. It does not establish the validity of any one religion.

I dont justify my faith because of evidence , I justify my faith through my expieriences related to the relationship described in the Bible between man and God ,. if I deciided to go on evidence I would still be a christian based on the lack of evidence of evolution.There is plenty of evidence thats pointing in favor of Creation, accepting the evidence means be accountable to our creator for our actions and words.is this why you dont want to accept his promise?God doesnt with hold from us. he want to dwell w/man because he loves man. in order for man to dwell w/God he has to make that choice . you Choose to Love that is what is so beautifull about the whole thing.w/out free will love would be an odd thing.