The Folly of the Mass

[jgb321]

During my 15 years in the Catholic Church, it seems somewhat bizarre to me now to look back at the period and think that so many Catholics actually believe that Jesus Christ, the Almighty God, actually comes down from Heaven everyday throughout the world and allows people to eat Him alive. Not only is this sheer madness, but cannibalism is illegal in all civilised countries, yet nothing is said of this folly.

I was only this past Saturday witnessing to a sweet elderly Catholic lady, and I asked her what she thought of the folly of Masses still being said for the late John Paul II, when the Church says he's in Heaven. I told her this is ridiculous, for if Christ died once to pay the price for sins, why then does the R.C.C still teach a need for a continued sacrifice? She didn't know and nor did I until started reading the Bible and Church history.

If the Catholic Church made the mass a symbolic memorial (they still curse anybody who teaches this) they would be no different to the rest of Christendom, and most of their billions of pounds would dry up, for Catholics who are able to still pay for masse$ to be said for their dead!

One of the first articles I wrote when leaving the Catholic Church was on the Eucharist, and I would welcome any feedback on my piece:

http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/articl...20Eucharist.htm

[billie]

That's gross!

[jgb321]

And the Catholic Church still curses anybody who believes what we believe. So much for the ecumenical movement!

[ScubaSteve]

During my 15 years in the Catholic Church, it seems somewhat bizarre to me now to look back at the period and think that so many Catholics actually believe that Jesus Christ, the Almighty God, actually comes down from Heaven everyday throughout the world and allows people to eat Him alive. Not only is this sheer madness, but cannibalism is illegal in all civilised countries, yet nothing is said of this folly.

One of the first articles I wrote when leaving the Catholic Church was on the Eucharist, and I would welcome any feedback on my piece:

http://www.excatholicsforchrist.com/articl...20Eucharist.htm

In the mass today the bread and wine are just representations of his body and blood. He used the bread and the wine to explain the significance of what He was going to do on the cross.

If you look at Luke 22:19-20 "19 Then he took a loaf of bread; and when he had thanked God for it, he broke it in pieces and gave it to the disciples, saying, "This is my body, given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 20 After supper he took another cup of wine and said, "This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you - an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour for you."

Paul also says later on in the bible in 1 Corinthians 11:23-25 "23 For this is what the Lord himself said, and I pass it on to you just as I recieved it. On the night he was betrayed, the Lord Jesus took a loaf of bread, 24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is given for you. Do this in remembrance of me." 25 In the same way, he took the cup of wine after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant between God and you, sealed by the shedding of my blood. Do this in remembrance of me as often as you drink it."

Therefore the host and the wine are merely representations, not an actual physical manifestation. Many Catholics I have met believe that the bread and wine remain unchanged, but Christ is spiritually present within the bread and wine. However there have been instances where the bread and wine actually do manifest themselves into flesh and blood.

As you say in Paragraph 5 of your article: "Many Catholics and high Anglicans..., believe that the priest has power to change a wafer and wine into the literal body and blood of Christ,"

The best example of this happening would have to be Lanciano, Italy - 8th Century A.D A priest has doubts about the Real Presence; however, when he consecrates the Host it transforms into flesh and blood. This miracle has undergone extensive scientific examination and can only be explained as a miracle. The flesh is actually cardiac tissue which contains arterioles, veins, and nerve fibers. The blood type as in all other approved Eucharistic miracles is type AB!

This, and more examples can be found on Eucharistic Miracles

Paragraph 31 of your article: "The Bible says "Without the shedding of blood, there can be no remission of sins" (Heb. 9:22) The mass is a non-bloody sacrifice. The sacrifices in the Old Testament were bloody. Jesus' death was very bloody. The mass is not. Therefore, according to Biblical theology, the mass is nullified and totally worthless!"

The major flaw in your argument is at the start of Heb 9:22. It states "22 In fact, we can say that according to the law of Moses, nearly everything was purified by sprinkling with blood. Without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sins."

However, if you read further into Heb 9; namely 9:24-26 "24 For Christ has entered into heaven itself to appear now before God as our Advocate. He did not go into the earthly place of worship, for that was merely a copy of the real Temple in heaven. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, like the earthly high priest who enters the Most Holy Place year after year to offer the blood of an animal. 26 If that had been necessary, he would have had to die again and again, ever since the world begain. But no! He came once for all time, at the end of the age, to remove the power of sin forever by his sacrificial death for us."

and

Heb 10:1-4 "1 The old system in the law of Moses was only a shadow of the things to come, not the reality of the good things Christ has done for us. The sacrifices under the old system were repeated again and again, year after year, but they were never able to provide perfect cleansing for those who came to worship. 2 If they could have provided perfect cleansing, the sacrifices would of stopped, for the worshippers would have been purified once for all time, and their feelings of guilt would have disappeared. 3 But just the opposite happened. Those yearly sacrifices reminded them of their sins year after year. 4 For it is not possible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins."

and

Heb 10:9-12, 14 "9 Then he added, "Look, I have come to do your will." He cancels the first covenant in order to establish the second. 10 And what God wants is for us to be made hold by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all time.

11 Under the old covenant, the priest stands before the altar day after day, offering sacrifices that can never take away sins. 12 But our High Priest offered himself to God as one sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then he sat down at the place of highest honor at God's right hand.

14 For by that one offerin he perfected forever all those whom he is making holy."

you will see that with the death of Christ he "nullified" the old covenant and brought in a new covenant, one that doesn't require sacrifices. Therefore the mass cannot be considered as nullified.

[billie]

So, Scuba, take it you're Catholic...

[CellShade]

Do it in remembrance of Him, but tell a catholic priest and he will tell you it's God incarnated and aswell, if it is in remembrance, why is it a neccesary step or one of them to be able to go to heaven?

I do for the good of the thread won't post more in this thread since we just had a catholic thread and I spiced things up a bit and things got closed, so I will rather not post in this thread for the sake of it not becoming another catholic vrs Christian thread

[ScubaSteve]

So, Scuba, take it you're Catholic...

Lol yeah I am Catholic and loving every minute of it!

[apothanein kerdos]

If I do something in rememberence of someone, it generally means that he/she is not there, correct? Such as a memorial service is in rememberence of a person...because that person is not there. I never hold something in rememberence of someone when that person is there.

Thus, how can communion be in rememberence of Christ if He is physically located in the bread and wine? This would be participation, not rememberence.

[billie]

So, Scuba, take it you're Catholic...

Lol yeah I am Catholic and loving every minute of it!

[Kabowd]

Yeah, it's bizarre and unbiblical as eating human flesh and drinking human blood is forbidden in Genesis 9:4 and Acts 15:19,20. Christ would not have asked His followers to violate Scripture.