Rosary vs Contraception

[Pax]

Trust & Obey: I will address a couple of things that you have brought up. You first stated the argument that you don't believe that contraception is o.k. because it isn't in the Bible. Can you point out to me where it talks about the Trinity in the Bible? The Trinity isn't mentioned once in the Bible, but I bet you believe in the Trintiy, as any Christian would. So this notion of everything is in the Bible (Solar Scriptora), has no basis. Abortifacient means that a fertilized egg attached to a womens inner wall is sluffed off. You can read any insert from any pharmaceutical company that produces the "pill" and this is mentioned as a side effect. It doens't happen all the time, but can happen. Vasectomy is simply sterilizing a man. The Vatican teaches that birth control is taking God out of the picture. You aren't being fully open to life. You stated that God can will anything which is true. You could kill a person and God could raise that person from the dead, but how likely is that to happen. Just like how likely is a women to get pregnant if her husband is sterilized? And finally I will mention this again, every Christian Church was against birth control until 1930. Then slowly each denomination charged there doctrine and now they all allow this except one. The Catholic Church, and this never will change.

Edited June 1, 2005 by Pax

[Kansasdad]

Very good post. And thanks for being willing to face the Catholic doctrine haters. It is amazing how they can never pass up the oportunity to trash the Catholic faith.

If you have notice "they" have not contradicted the point made by your post. Mainly because they can't, and stay biblical. Our Families are under direct attack from satan and this is a very suttle tool he usses to great effect against the family. I applaud the Catholic Church for not giving in to popular culture, we are living in a culture of death. This is not just about abortion, it is about marriage and the relationship of husband and wife. Satan knows if he destroys that then the rest will follow. DON"T buy into satans lies.

Thanks, Good post.

Kansas Dad

[Pax]

Kansasdad: You live in a good state! I was born and raised there. But now I live in Nebraska. I grew up a Protestant, Baptist to be exact. Five years ago I decided to really start studying Theology and this led me to the Catholic Church. The contraception issue is a very important one. As you pointed out so wisely, contraception is a great tool for the devil. Look at divorce rates since the 1960's. Have they gone up or down? They have gone up dramatically to where now over 50% of marriages will end in divorce. When did the "Pill" come out? The 1960's, and this was the begining of the birth control pill and the free love movement. This has had a tremendoulsy negative effect on society and the family. This is exactly why the Vatican has been the only Christian religion to stand up and say contraception is wrong. I would encourage all of you who think contraceptions is o.k. to really look into this matter. You will be surprised. Also there is a great audio tape on the market called "Contraception, Why Not?" by Dr. Janet Smith. This is the best resource I have ever heard detailing why contraception is wrong. You might be able to find this tape at a Christian Book store, but would be more successful at a Catholic Bookstore. If not there than ask a good Catholic priest where you can find this resource. God Bless you all.

[Trust & Obey]

Trust & Obey:  I will address a couple of things that you have brought up.  You first stated the argument that you don't believe that contraception is o.k. because it isn't in the Bible.  Can you point out to me where it talks about the Trinity in the Bible?  The Trinity isn't mentioned once in the Bible, but I bet you believe in the Trintiy, as any Christian would.

No, but I can show you where the Bible says that the Father is God, and where it says that the Son is God, and where it says that the Holy Spirit is God. Then, I can show you where it says there is only 1 God. Hence, the 3 are the 1 God. So, the doctrine is clearly taught.

So this notion of everything is in the Bible (Solar Scriptora), has no basis.  Abortifacient means that a fertilized egg attached to a womens inner wall is sluffed off.  You can read any insert from any pharmaceutical company that produces the "pill" and this is mentioned as a side effect.  It doens't happen all the time, but can happen.

I agree and that is why I do not advocate the pill.

Vasectomy is simply sterilizing a man.

Hence, no fertilization... hence, no abortifacient properties.

The Vatican teaches that birth control is taking God out of the picture.  You aren't being fully open to life.  You stated that God can will anything which is true.  You could kill a person and God could raise that person from the dead, but how likely is that to happen.  Just like how likely is a women to get pregnant if her husband is sterilized?

I know several people who have had children after vasectomies. It isn't 100% guaranteed. And, God could certainly override it.

And finally I will mention this again, every Christian Church was against birth control until 1930.  Then slowly each denomination charged there doctrine and now  they all allow this except one.  The Catholic Church, and this never will change. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mass consensus doesn't mean it is right. For hundreds of years true Christians were put to death under the Popes and the RCC.

Left handed children were once thought to have been demonically possessed.

Remember, each person walks before their Lord and will be judged by Him... not by the Church.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

[Kansasdad]

Again all you have done is to take this opportunity to attack the Catholic Doctrine. Yet you have failed to address the core essence of the original post. That contraceptives have helped destroy marriage. That Contraceptives are in opposition to truly trusting God with your marriage, your family. Catholic bashing is getting old. I think this post has real merit with plenty of room for honest discussion. Lets try to discover satans lies where ever they might be. Even if they hit close to home. If you want to "expose Catholic Doctrine" then make a post about it, but please stop interjecting it into every thread.

Kansas Dad

[Pax]

Trust and Obey: You make some good points, but I would like to expand on them. You are right the Trinity is clearly taught in scripture, but the word isn't used. Much like the many scriptures used to talk about being open to life. The word contraception isn't used, but being open to life is talked about in several places. I will mention a few for you to look up. PSALM 127: 3-5 "Behold children are a heritage from the lord, the fruit of the womb is his reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them."

Hosea 9 10-17: This speaks of Isreal being punished with childlessness.

Genesis 1 :27-28 we are called to be fruitful and multiply.

Genesis 38:9-10 Oman is killed for spilling his seed on the ground.

The list goes on of scripture calling us to be open to life. Sterilization and forms of birth control that use a barrier are also wrong. Your right they aren't an abortifacient, but you are not completely open to life. And this notion that many women get pregnant after their husband has a vascetomy is not correct. If vascetomies didn't work very well, then why would so many men be getting them? They are 99.9% effective.

[Pax]

Trust & Obey: You have made some very bold statements about the Catholic Church. As Kansasdad stated this wasn't the original idea of this post. If you want to talk apologetics go to that section on this forum. I have been posting there as well.

That is my true passion, educating people what the Catholic church truely believes and teaches. Most are very misinformed about the Church as you seem to be.

[Trust & Obey]

Again all you have done is to take this opportunity to attack the Catholic Doctrine.  Yet you have failed to address the core essence of the original post.  That contraceptives have helped destroy marriage.  That Contraceptives are in opposition to truly trusting God with your marriage, your family.  Catholic bashing is getting old.  I think this post has real merit with plenty of room for honest discussion.  Lets try to discover satans lies where ever they might be.  Even if they hit close to home.  If you want to "expose Catholic Doctrine" then make a post about it, but please stop interjecting it into every thread.

Kansas Dad

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, Kansas Dad.

I'm not "catholic doctrine bashing." And, I was about to say so to your earlier reference to it, but decided that the accusation was without merit. But, since you are reiterating the term, I'll address it.

I do not believe that a vasectomy is outside of God's will for me. You may feel differently about yourself, but that is between you and God and I am willing to let you make decisions for yourself.

If any organization tells me that I cannot do something that a) the Bible hasn't prohibited, and b) that the Spirit of God is not convicting me about, then I will discard that warning. God has placed His spirit within me and is sufficient to lead me during the course of my day.

1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Trust me, the Spirit of God convicts me plenty about this, that, or the other. God is able to let me know His will on the matter.

My whole point is that each one of us walks before our Lord individually, not corporately.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

So, I think I am biblically accurate by allowing each Christian to make this decision for themself, rather than insisting that they follow my particular persuasion on the subject.

I am not a "catholic basher." I simply don't believe the "contraception is of the devil" argument. Can contraception be "of the devil?" Sure it can. If God tells you not to do it, and you do it, then that is rebellion and THAT is "of the devil."

In essential, UNITY.

In non-essential, LIBERTY.

In all things, CHARITY.

I am willing to allow God to lead His children, without my interference, on issues that are of a personal opinion.

[Kansasdad]

Quote Trust & Obey{"For me, I do not understand how one could be a genuine believer and be "at home" in the RCC. But, that is between them and their Lord."}

Thank you for keeping it to the subject at hand I think this ia worthy discussion.

I will admit that I have mixed thoughts on this subject. I find it a little scary though to dismiss it because God hasn't convicted it in my heart. All sin could be justified in this way. I do feel that Marriage is under attack from satan. God is so infinitely more knowledgeable then we, things that seem harmless may in fact not be so harmless. If in fact contraception does degrade the marriage could it no be a small step that starts society down a slippery slope. Have we really examined the consequences of what we do? Even though contraception has no conviction to you I would guess that abortion, adultery, pornography, and divorce does. Is it worth considering,

[Pax]

Trust & Obey: Your right God gave all of us a free will. But he also gave us reason, logic, and the Church for guidance. A person couldn't possibly think God would leave us on Earth with no direction except for ourselves. You will come back and say that you have the word of God. In which case you are right, but the problem is that one person will use the Bible and interpret what they want, and then the next guy will interpret it another way and all we have is a big confused mess. This is the reason we have one universal church headed by the succession of Peter, which would be the Pope. So that we have one truth and direction. Like I pointed out earlier we now have Churchs that promote homosexuality, some promote abortion, etc. God never intended all of us to be confused and have no direction except what we think we should do.