Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[artsylady]

"Bacterial flagellum ring a bell?"

Nebraska man ring a bell?

How about the coelocanth?

Ever hear of Lamarck and his mice?

In fact, the 'evidence' presented at the Scopes trials has all since been discarded.

This list can go on forever? Where should I possibly start?

And when I have time, I WILL look into bacterial flagellum for you. I'll first look at Talk Origins, so don't you worry.

[Grungekid]

Which side are you on exactly?

Who cares about politics? Let's stop trying to answer the big questions and just become humanists!

Side note- what does any of this have to do with homosexuallity? Were we arguing about same-sex relations as evolutionary faculty? Because if we were, that's just a waste of time. It can't be proven that humans require or are somehow evolving homosexual partnerships.

Edited September 13, 2007 by Grungekid

[artsylady]

bump

[Guest Simian]

what differance does it make if people are gay or not..even if you beleive your god doesnt like it..i dont see the kind of anti muslim or anti witch hatred i see for the gays

live and let live and then let your god sort us out if he exists

Edited January 14, 2008 by Simian

[Grungekid]

what differance does it make if people are gay or not..even if you beleive your god doesnt like it..i dont see the kind of anti muslim or anti witch hatred i see for the gays

live and let live and then let your god sort us out if he exists

What kind of a speech was that?

[artsylady]

bump

[Floatingaxe]

How about children with Down Syndrome? Or with terrible genetic illnesses?

And what about the > 20% spontaneous abortions?

Since when are they sins? We suffer deformities of various kinds because of sin in the world, due to the Fall.

A certain percentage of gay people is natural (very frequent in the animal world, too).

I am not gay (although I wish I would be, women are so complicated ) but I know several

gay people and most of them developed this tendency very early in life and never felt the

slightest attraction towards members of the opposite sex. Is it really their fault?

Nothing about homosexuality is normal. Many homosexuals say the tendencies began early in life, but it isn't because they were born that way. Abuse, molestation, incest, among other factors will turn a person toward the same sex for unsuitable relationship. One thing that is hardly ever considered is the fact that we have a gamut of levels of masculinity and femininity in both genders, and we have a very intolerant and ignorant society. some boys may be more soft and effeminate and when they are rebuffed by their peers and called names, they are actually steered toward homosexuality---all due to ignorance!

[~candice~]

It's all a big strawman .

It doesn't matter if they are born gay, it is still sin .

Born gay, became gay, turned gay, influenced to be gay... doesn't matter... sin is sin is sin.

[Bubba4J]

It's all a big strawman .

It doesn't matter if they are born gay, it is still sin .

Born gay, became gay, turned gay, influenced to be gay... doesn't matter... sin is sin is sin.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[808state]

Nothing about homosexuality is normal. Many homosexuals say the tendencies began early in life, but it isn't because they were born that way. Abuse, molestation, incest, among other factors will turn a person toward the same sex for unsuitable relationship. One thing that is hardly ever considered is the fact that we have a gamut of levels of masculinity and femininity in both genders, and we have a very intolerant and ignorant society. some boys may be more soft and effeminate and when they are rebuffed by their peers and called names, they are actually steered toward homosexuality---all due to ignorance!

I think to suggest that one or even a series of events can change a person's sexual orientation is actually too simplistic. It's too on the surface. I would say what's mostly likely the case is that sexuality in general is actually a lot more complicated and layered. People's orientations are probably determined by a complex mixture of things, perhaps both biological and environmental. But to say that societal influences or traumatic events can change or determine one's sexual orientation, I don't think so. Say, for example, a young girl was abused by a man and she grew up to be a lesbian. I could understand that experience traumatizing her enough to be fearful of getting into a relationship with a man as she got older, but I don't see how they could create a real attraction to women. She would just view women the same as she ever did, the same as any other straight woman.

I actually think if you look at the idea of child abuse or some other negative experience being able to to make an individual attracted to the same-sex, it's really an idea born out of ignorance and personal bias. Now, this take a little bit of thinking objectively, and the "you" isn't anyone in particular, but I have a theory: As a heterosexual individual, when first confronted with the idea of homosexuality, your initial reaction is usually going to be disgust. It's not an idea many are used to. Then you question how they could possibly want to be with someone of the same-sex. And, naturally, as a heterosexual individual you can only draw from your own experiences in this regard, what would it take for you to become gay? Now, again, as someone who simply can't understand how anyone could possibly want to be with someone of the same-sex and might even be disgusted by the thought, you're not going to think it was born out of a positive experience. You're not going to think that they're gay because someone really amazing of the same-sex that magically "changed" them. You're naturally going to think it was because of something negative. They must have had someone really treat them horribly as a child to be turned off of the opposite sex. But this whole idea is really just born out of the fact that because we aren't attracted to the same-sex, we can't imagine someone someone else actually being attracted to the same-sex. We can imagine really negative experiences that could push a person to not want to be around people of the opposite sex in an intimate way. This is obviously a large generalization, and obviously not all straight people feel this way about homosexuality but I'd still say this is a relatively common and influential point of view.

Now, I'm just arguing that homosexuality could really just be apart of one's nature, and considering human nature, as far as the Bible is concerned, is indeed a sinful nature, I don't understand why many Christians are so hesitant to accept that. It doesn't mean that they have to accept homosexuality. It can still be a sin, whether or not being gay is natural to a person isn't going to change that.