Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[Oh Hamburgers!]

My example was probably far fetched, I agree. But I know that not every married couple enjoys an exciting and fufilling sex life, and I sincerely think that there are many gay married men out there that are in relationships that they don't truly enjoy, but through social pressures feel trapped in these relationships.

[artsylady]

Hi Justaguy:

Here is a link

http://www.freetobeme.com/r_biol.htm

Sorry about that.

And you might want to read the whole thread before you comment because we've rehashed the same things over and again a few times.

[lenv]

Hey all.

Anyone want to ask me something, (without attacking me...) please shoot.

I was born again at the tender age of 10, and baptised in the H.S. shortly after. I have loved and served God since pasionately. I have been in Pentecostal/Charismatic church leadership for over 20 years (worship leader - I play piano and sing/ cell group leader). I was married for 10 years to a wonderful wife.

As shocking as this may sound, I am gay. I struggled to deal with this since I know the church teachings. So I do what a "good christian" is suppose to do. Surpress the urges, live in denial and pray to God to get delivered like there is no tomorrow.

Hmmm until God told me my calling and ministry will NEVER come to fulfillment while I am living a lie. God said He had a plan. So 6 years ago I came out, gave my wife her freedom as she asked for it, and started this journey as an openly gay man. God is still the very centre and core of my life and existence. I still pray, worship, study the Bible and I am closer now to God than ever before. And I believe I was born gay. It was not my choice. God revealed it to me through the Bible and I will stick to it. The prophetic insights God is currently giving me surpasses all I have ever encountered in my life as a married man. And now I have a stable, steady relationship with a partner, and still have never been blessed as much as I have been in recent years. Surely goodness and mercy is following me beyond description.

Meanwhile my heart is breaking before God for the lost in the gay communities in London. I believe God is going to bring revival there. I regularely attend some church conferences with other gay leadership in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles in the USA, and some of the leadership in the straight church circles are beginning to see and flow with what God is doing in the gay communities in Dallas, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

I believe God is getting ready to pour out His Spirit upon ALL flesh, including the gay communities. And I am interceding for London UK as well, as I feel that we should also be a part of it.

So shoot! Any (honest, sincere) questions....

Len

www.godsfriends.co.uk

[Guest LadyC]

really. God revealed all this to you in scripture? sorry, i ain't buying it. you are actively (and apparently proudly) involved in a physical relationship with another man, which violates many of God's commands to us regarding sexual behaviour, aside from the homosexuality, and you claim to believe that you are keeping GOD at the center of your life? i ain't buying that either.

if you truly believe that God is ok with this, you're sadly deceived. i have no doubt that God has a plan for you, but brother, THIS AIN'T IT.

[CaritateDei]

really. God revealed all this to you in scripture? sorry, i ain't buying it. you are actively (and apparently proudly) involved in a physical relationship with another man, which violates many of God's commands to us regarding sexual behaviour, aside from the homosexuality, and you claim to believe that you are keeping GOD at the center of your life? i ain't buying that either.

if you truly believe that God is ok with this, you're sadly deceived. i have no doubt that God has a plan for you, but brother, THIS AIN'T IT.

GOOD JOB! You just convinced him! That's the kind of language that truly saves and converts people!

[lenv]

if you truly believe that God is ok with this, you're sadly deceived. i have no doubt that God has a plan for you, but brother, THIS AIN'T IT.

Thank you for your valuable insights. We obviously do not walk in the same revelation of who God is either. I suppose your God hates gays?

I wonder what Kim Clement will have to say about that?

Never mind.

Len

[Kansasdad]

Hey all.

Anyone want to ask me something, (without attacking me...) please shoot.

I was born again at the tender age of 10, and baptised in the H.S. shortly after. I have loved and served God since pasionately. I have been in Pentecostal/Charismatic church leadership for over 20 years (worship leader - I play piano and sing/ cell group leader). I was married for 10 years to a wonderful wife.

As shocking as this may sound, I am gay. I struggled to deal with this since I know the church teachings. So I do what a "good christian" is suppose to do. Surpress the urges, live in denial and pray to God to get delivered like there is no tomorrow.

Hmmm until God told me my calling and ministry will NEVER come to fulfillment while I am living a lie. God said He had a plan. So 6 years ago I came out, gave my wife her freedom as she asked for it, and started this journey as an openly gay man. God is still the very centre and core of my life and existence. I still pray, worship, study the Bible and I am closer now to God than ever before. And I believe I was born gay. It was not my choice. God revealed it to me through the Bible and I will stick to it. The prophetic insights God is currently giving me surpasses all I have ever encountered in my life as a married man. And now I have a stable, steady relationship with a partner, and still have never been blessed as much as I have been in recent years. Surely goodness and mercy is following me beyond description.

Meanwhile my heart is breaking before God for the lost in the gay communities in London. I believe God is going to bring revival there. I regularely attend some church conferences with other gay leadership in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles in the USA, and some of the leadership in the straight church circles are beginning to see and flow with what God is doing in the gay communities in Dallas, Los Angeles and San Francisco.

I believe God is getting ready to pour out His Spirit upon ALL flesh, including the gay communities. And I am interceding for London UK as well, as I feel that we should also be a part of it.

So shoot! Any (honest, sincere) questions....

Len

www.godsfriends.co.uk

Let me ask you this. Lets not make this a gay/straight issue. What does the Bible say about having sexual relations outside of marriage, of any sort, and how does the Bible define such marriage?

God Bless,

K.D.

[Guest LadyC]

no, my God doesn't hate gays. He hates homosexual acts, just as He hates all sexually immoral acts, including sex outside of marriage, adultry, etc. and He says that those who continue living those lifestyles will be eternally separated from Him. so like it or not, God has commanded you to turn AWAY from your lifestyle. if you refuse to do so, you are rejecting Him, just like if i had chosen to continue living my former lifestyle of promiscuity i would have been rejecting Him. we can not possibly be keeping Him front and center in our lives if we are actively choosing to reject Him.

Kansasdad had some good questions. i'd like to hear your answers.

[Guest LadyC]

really. God revealed all this to you in scripture? sorry, i ain't buying it. you are actively (and apparently proudly) involved in a physical relationship with another man, which violates many of God's commands to us regarding sexual behaviour, aside from the homosexuality, and you claim to believe that you are keeping GOD at the center of your life? i ain't buying that either.

if you truly believe that God is ok with this, you're sadly deceived. i have no doubt that God has a plan for you, but brother, THIS AIN'T IT.

GOOD JOB! You just convinced him! That's the kind of language that truly saves and converts people!

lying to him and saying that God has no problem with what he is doing is not going to save or convert him either, carit. he's read this thread. he knows the truth and has rejected it.

[lenv]

KansasDad:

When is a marriage a marriage? When does God consider someone married?

1) Is it when the minister/priest/pastor says: I now declare you.....

2) is it when you sign the register?

3) is it when you sleep with the person you love?

Does the Bible actually give a clear instruction as to when in the eyes of God someone is married?

Isaac had 2 wives: Rachel and Leah

Abraham had Sarah, but slept with Hagar, so when were they married?

So I picked up my Bible and looked up all the passages that have anything to do with marriage (I had help: I used a concordance). I examined the scriptural use of all the words I could think of related to marriage: marriage, marriages, marry, marries, married, wedding, weddings, wed, husband, husbands, wife, and wives.

All told I looked up over 800 references. Exempting the references, which are narrative (e.g. "Adam named his wife Eve" Gen 3:20) or metaphorical (Christ's marriage to the church, Rev 21:9), I was able to distil those 825 verse references into 12 general principles: 12 Biblical "rules" or guidelines regarding marriage, which encompass the gamut of scripture. I hereby present the list, with the applicable references.

12 Biblical Principles of Marriage

1. Marriage consists of one man and one or more women. (Gen 4:19, 4:23, 26:34, 28:9, 29:26-30, 30:26, 31:17, 32:22, 36:2, 36:10, 37:2, Ex. 21:10, Judges 8:30, 1 Sam 1:2, 25:43, 27:3, 30:5, 30:18, 2 Sam 2:2, 3:2-5, 1 Chron 3:1-3, 4:5, 8:8, 14:3, 2 Chron 11:21, 13:21, 24:3).

2. Nothing prevents a man from taking on concubines in addition to the wife or wives he may already have. (Gen 25:6, Judges 8:31, 2 Sam 5:13, 1 Kings 11:3, 1 Chron 3:9, 2 Chron 11:21, Dan 5:2-3).

3. A man might chose any woman he wants for his wife (Gen 6:2, Deut 21:11), provided only that she is not already another man's wife (Lev 18:14-16, Deut. 22:30) or his [half-] sister (Lev 18:11, 20:17), nor the mother (Lev 20:14) or the sister (Lev 18:18) of a woman who is already his wife. The concept of a woman giving her consent to being married is foreign to the Biblical mindset.

4. If a woman cannot be proven to be a virgin at the time of marriage, she shall be stoned. (Deut 22:13-21).

5. A rapist must marry his victim (Ex. 22:16, Deut. 22:28-29) - unless she was already a fianc