Good information on 'Born Gay' Studies

[Guest]

Be Blessed Beloved Daughter Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:

The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them.

Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest LadyC]

It seems to me that many Christians on these forums seem to think that if your gay, all you have to do is accept Christ, and boom - you're "cured". Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way.

I have a few friends who are gay, and have also accepted Christ. Of course, many on here will say that they have not "truly" accepted Jesus (because of their homosexuality) without even knowing these people, and that my friends, is called passing judgment... which is up to God, and not us.

nobody thinks it does work that way paulo. the point we keep trying to make is if a gay person accepts Christ, they live their lives as a daily sacrifice for their Lord. that means they sacrifice their own fleshly desires. just like anyone else does. do you think gays somehow have it tougher than heterosexuals when it comes to sexual desire? they don't. period. God designed all of humanity to be sexual beings. it's part of our intrinsic nature. whether we're sexually attracted to someone of the same sex or the opposite, we still have to put GOD first in our life.

however, if a person claims to have accepted Christ and yet has no desire to change, or justifies their sin by refusing to acknowledge it as sin, and forges full steam ahead with their lifestlye (whether that is adultery, or promiscuity, or homosexuality) with no remorse, then they don't know Christ at all.

[hepatocyte]

I think we've encountered the problem of semantics again.

Gay: attraction or behavior?

[Floatingaxe]

So, hetrosexuals should abstain from sex then too... is that what you're saying? The problem is, I don't believe it's a choice (see above). So, if it's not a choice, then why should they have to suffer while straight men and women can be free?

We are free because we live our lives according to God's design. Suffering is part of the consequence for veering off into forbidden territory. Those who find Christ can have a complete and instant healing, but mostly we see that there has been psychological damage and fallout---and it often takes time for restoration of that life.

[hepatocyte]

So, hetrosexuals should abstain from sex then too... is that what you're saying? The problem is, I don't believe it's a choice (see above). So, if it's not a choice, then why should they have to suffer while straight men and women can be free?

We are free because we live our lives according to God's design. Suffering is part of the consequence for veering off into forbidden territory. Those who find Christ can have a complete and instant healing, but mostly we see that there has been psychological damage and fallout---and it often takes time for restoration of that life.

That would be a miracle. Miracles do occur. But miracles are not granted to everyone. For most, it's a life of never-ending temptation. Straight people can get married, lest they burn with lust. But for gay people, that is not an option.

Why does God allow Christians to suffer from life-long homosexual temptation? Why did God put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and forbid Adam and Eve to eat from it?

I guess we'll find out in heaven when we ask Him...maybe.

[Guest LadyC]

So, hetrosexuals should abstain from sex then too... is that what you're saying? The problem is, I don't believe it's a choice (see above). So, if it's not a choice, then why should they have to suffer while straight men and women can be free?

until such time as the heterosexual marries, yes. we are to abstain from sex, and we are to avoid sexual temptation in any form. and millions of heterosexuals never marry. and IF Jesus is the Lord of their life, and they are keeping their focus on Him, they can remain abstinant. nobody said it would be easy, but it is more than possible, and it is a choice.

who one is attracted to is irrelevant when it comes to choice. the choice is in whether we ACT on our impulses, on our desires, on our compulsions, or whether we take every inappropriate thought captive to Christ, who we have committed our lives to serving.

now, one can not make the legitimate claim that they have made Jesus Lord of their life and are committed to doing God's will if they continually spit in his face by doing whatever they WANT to do, just because self-sacrifice is too tough to handle.

i'm not saying they'll instantly have an easy life without temptation, and i'm not saying that a christian will never commit a sin again. but it's a state of the heart. when a christian stumbles and sins, they feel remorse, they feel the conviction of the Holy Spirit, they feel ashamed, and they want to struggle to get back on their feet in right standing with God.

if a person can stand there and look you in the eye and say "i'm a christian, and i don't believe the choices i make with my life are sins", and believe their own words even though scripture tells us those choices are sins, then that person is deaf to the Holy Spirit. they do not know God.

[Floatingaxe]

So, hetrosexuals should abstain from sex then too... is that what you're saying? The problem is, I don't believe it's a choice (see above). So, if it's not a choice, then why should they have to suffer while straight men and women can be free?

We are free because we live our lives according to God's design. Suffering is part of the consequence for veering off into forbidden territory. Those who find Christ can have a complete and instant healing, but mostly we see that there has been psychological damage and fallout---and it often takes time for restoration of that life.

That would be a miracle. Miracles do occur. But miracles are not granted to everyone. For most, it's a life of never-ending temptation. Straight people can get married, lest they burn with lust. But for gay people, that is not an option.

Why does God allow Christians to suffer from life-long homosexual temptation? Why did God put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and forbid Adam and Eve to eat from it?

I guess we'll find out in heaven when we ask Him...maybe.

It's only a temptation for those who have willingly crossed the line--either physically or mentally.

God wants us to choose Him--willingly.

[hepatocyte]

It's only a temptation for those who have willingly crossed the line--either physically or mentally.

God wants us to choose Him--willingly.

No. It's not.

Was Jesus tempted because He willingly crossed the line?

We are to fight temptation. No where does it ever say temptation means you've willingly crossed the line.

"God wants us to choose Him--willingly."

- I don't think you can ever do it unwillingly.

[Guest LadyC]

So, hetrosexuals should abstain from sex then too... is that what you're saying? The problem is, I don't believe it's a choice (see above). So, if it's not a choice, then why should they have to suffer while straight men and women can be free?

We are free because we live our lives according to God's design. Suffering is part of the consequence for veering off into forbidden territory. Those who find Christ can have a complete and instant healing, but mostly we see that there has been psychological damage and fallout---and it often takes time for restoration of that life.

That would be a miracle. Miracles do occur. But miracles are not granted to everyone. For most, it's a life of never-ending temptation. Straight people can get married, lest they burn with lust. But for gay people, that is not an option.

Why does God allow Christians to suffer from life-long homosexual temptation? Why did God put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and forbid Adam and Eve to eat from it?

I guess we'll find out in heaven when we ask Him...maybe.

i can answer that. at least the first question. this is the difference between justifcation and sanctification. floating axe said that the healing is instant, but the psychological damage and fallout takes time for restoration. put another way, it takes a daily effort to accept that healing and WALK IN IT. we are instantly justified by faith the minute we accept Christ. but we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.... that's the sanctification process... that we live in our faith and walk by our faith every day, sacrificing our fleshly desires, every day.

there is freedom in that, if we're doing it out of LOVE for Jesus. it only becomes a ball and chain if we're doing it for any other reason. if we're keeping a scorecard of what we're doing right vs. what we're doing wrong, it doesn't feel like freedom at all. my pastor gave a great analogy for this last week. it's the perfect illustration. a woman married a man who demanded that supper be on the table promptly at six every night, that the laundry was done on monday, that the ironing was done on tuesday, that the shopping was done on wednesday, that the first thing to be done each day was the bed had to be made. she obeyed his rules until the day he died... but it was always a burden. years later she married another man. he didn't make demands. if he ate dinner at five or at seven, that was fine, as long as he ate. if the bed wasn't made, his attitude was 'it'll just get unmade at bedtime anyway'. he didn't care when she did the chores and errands, as long as he had food in the house and clean clothes to wear to work. one day while going through an old box, she found her first husband's list of rules, and in amazement, she realized that all those things that she stressed over during her first marriage had become second nature to her. during her second marriage, she'd never missed a day of making the bed, she'd never failed to have dinner on the table at six, she'd always done the laundry and ironing and shopping on the days her first husband had demanded....

the difference is, during the first marriage, she did it because it was the "law". during her second marriage, she did it because it as an expression of her love.

that is how our relationship with Christ should be. when we do things out of love for Him, it is no longer a burden that we must uphold under the law.

romans 7 would be a good chapter for you to study.

[Floatingaxe]

i can answer that. at least the first question. this is the difference between justifcation and sanctification. floating axe said that the healing is instant, but the psychological damage and fallout takes time for restoration. put another way, it takes a daily effort to accept that healing and WALK IN IT. we are instantly justified by faith the minute we accept Christ. but we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.... that's the sanctification process... that we live in our faith and walk by our faith every day, sacrificing our fleshly desires, every day.

there is freedom in that, if we're doing it out of LOVE for Jesus. it only becomes a ball and chain if we're doing it for any other reason. if we're keeping a scorecard of what we're doing right vs. what we're doing wrong, it doesn't feel like freedom at all. my pastor gave a great analogy for this last week. it's the perfect illustration. a woman married a man who demanded that supper be on the table promptly at six every night, that the laundry was done on monday, that the ironing was done on tuesday, that the shopping was done on wednesday, that the first thing to be done each day was the bed had to be made. she obeyed his rules until the day he died... but it was always a burden. years later she married another man. he didn't make demands. if he ate dinner at five or at seven, that was fine, as long as he ate. if the bed wasn't made, his attitude was 'it'll just get unmade at bedtime anyway'. he didn't care when she did the chores and errands, as long as he had food in the house and clean clothes to wear to work. one day while going through an old box, she found her first husband's list of rules, and in amazement, she realized that all those things that she stressed over during her first marriage had become second nature to her. during her second marriage, she'd never missed a day of making the bed, she'd never failed to have dinner on the table at six, she'd always done the laundry and ironing and shopping on the days her first husband had demanded....

the difference is, during the first marriage, she did it because it was the "law". during her second marriage, she did it because it as an expression of her love.

that is how our relationship with Christ should be. when we do things out of love for Him, it is no longer a burden that we must uphold under the law.

romans 7 would be a good chapter for you to study.

Excellent!