A strange Baptism Question

[pointer]

When I see someone getting baptized, I know they are doing it because they believe.

But you don't know whether they love, or hate what they believe.

Is it our place to judge at that point?

You can speak for yourself, but it is certainly the task of Christian overseers, and indeed all Christians, to take every possible step to root out false teachers, to say nothing of mere 'head' believers, from the church. Real churches take very great care to permit as members only those who exhibit the fruits of the Spirit in their personal lives for an extended time. Getting wet is nothing like enough.

When people are offered baptism, they are informed of the seriousness of their decision. Some are serious, others may be frivolous, but is is their fruit we see or not see as their lives bear out their commitment. Baptism is an undertaking of personal commitment and it is mostly done early in one's walk with Jesus.

I repeat: We can judge only at that point in their walk that they are being obedient! Discipling continues.

Baptism is not an entrance into church membership, btw

You are joking.

[Floatingaxe]

When I see someone getting baptized, I know they are doing it because they believe.

But you don't know whether they love, or hate what they believe.

Is it our place to judge at that point?

You can speak for yourself, but it is certainly the task of Christian overseers, and indeed all Christians, to take every possible step to root out false teachers, to say nothing of mere 'head' believers, from the church. Real churches take very great care to permit as members only those who exhibit the fruits of the Spirit in their personal lives for an extended time. Getting wet is nothing like enough.

When people are offered baptism, they are informed of the seriousness of their decision. Some are serious, others may be frivolous, but is is their fruit we see or not see as their lives bear out their commitment. Baptism is an undertaking of personal commitment and it is mostly done early in one's walk with Jesus.

I repeat: We can judge only at that point in their walk that they are being obedient! Discipling continues.

Baptism is not an entrance into church membership, btw

You are joking.

Why would you think that?

[LadyGunivere]

pointer so your saying its right to judge after the baptism and they start barely walking with Jesus?

[pointer]

pointer

Real churches take very great care to permit as members only those who exhibit the fruits of the Spirit in their personal lives for an extended time. Getting wet is nothing like enough.

What kind of agility test does your "real church" administer to make sure one is of the

[pointer]

pointer so your saying its right to judge after the baptism

It's essential to judge before permitting membership of the true church. Water baptism can be omitted. Spirit baptism, or signs thereof, cannot.

[Floatingaxe]

pointer so your saying its right to judge after the baptism

It's essential to judge before permitting membership of the true church. Water baptism can be omitted. Spirit baptism, or signs thereof, cannot.

Now that is nonsense! God is the only qualified judge when it comes to entrance into the true Church. Only He can see the heart.

When can water baptism be omitted?

[LadyGunivere]

I can't believe anyone would do that......I don't agree with you pointer but its just my own opinion.

[pointer]

pointer so your saying its right to judge after the baptism

It's essential to judge before permitting membership of the true church. Water baptism can be omitted. Spirit baptism, or signs thereof, cannot.

Now that is nonsense! God is the only qualified judge when it comes to entrance into the true Church.

God is the judge of those who are to be with Him. It is the responsibility of the leaders of the church to judge who will accompany them. And there had better not be much difference, if leaders are not to perish in a dreadful way.

Only He can see the heart.

But people can see fruits. And those with deceitful hearts are always caught out, sooner or later, by lack of fruits, in my experience. "You will know them by their fruits." Quite simple, really.

When can water baptism be omitted?

When the practice becomes meaningless because of its widespread use by pagans. And that happened a long time ago.

[Guest man]

Water baptism can be omitted. Spirit baptism, or signs thereof, cannot.

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he can not enter the Kingdom of God." John 3:5

[pointer]

Water baptism can be omitted. Spirit baptism, or signs thereof, cannot.

Jesus answered, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he can not enter the Kingdom of God." John 3:5

That is an example of a hendiadys, a figure of speech in which the same idea is repeated, but in different ways; in this case, by a literal sense and a metaphoric one, the word 'water' being a figure for 'Spirit', referring to the cleansing action of the Holy Spirit in repentance.