Did Jesus want us involved with the Nations' Politics?

[RGR]

In addition Ronald, Caesar was not elected. The Roman government was nothing like the government in America, so they really didn't have the ability to choose their leadership like we have here.

LOL! I actually thought of that one, but didn't post it!

[RGR]

I know it's not in Scripture, but there is the story of John having nothing to do with a certain heretic! He left!!!!

Wasn't this the story where John was in a public bath(they did that back then) and one of the heretical teachers, a gnostic, (or else a nicolaitaine), got in the pool with him?

Right on the money!

[LadyRaven]

Greetings all,

Thank you for having a great forum that allows people to amalgamate. I was raised Catholic, did my first communion when I was a teen but since high school I had lost my way. I

[LadyRaven]

You guys responded quickly! I can only hope that you read it so I'm not wasting my time. I really do not know how to reply to your responses as I am still overwhelmed by the article. Remember, I'm still new to Christianity and very hungry to learn about HIM. The more I learn, it gives me a new look of what is wrong with my surroundings. Thus becoming very passionate to the "right" to fix things via politics, voting, etc... doing my part in God's will and a U.S. Citizen. But to the contrary, the article states the opposite and I am confused. Here's the thing, my current thoughts only, if Christians do not get involved with U.S. politics, the entire world will spiral down this slippery slope of evil. Could this perhaps be how the prophecies of Revelations be fulfilled? Again, not making this a political discussion. Also, can some of you point to some of your arguments against the author's writing?

Also thanks Butero

If you like to read and are really interested in the topic, I recommend a book called CHristian Theology of Public Policy, by James Cobin, PHD. It comes from a certain perspective, one of four generally accepted "theologies" of public policy, however he does a very very good job in the first four chapters describing what all four of them are and what they mean before "picking" one and defending it.

It is probably not in your christian bookstore, since he self published, however I know amazon has it cause i sell it on my political blog.

[LadyRaven]

1. Is the writing the general mainstream thoughts of Christians?

Honestly I don't know. I know it doesn't speak for me or anyone I know of. But when it comes to this sort of thing, your "actual" theology (calvinist, baptist, mennonite) affects it alot. Most people I know of are either athiest/pagan and thus not part of the question or of a calvinist/reformed persuasion (even the baptist friends I have are friendly to the "founders" movement). We tend toward certain beliefs which are rather opposite to many points in the article. We do acknowledge though the premise that there is a distinction between the two kingdoms and we must not place our hope in the political. Like anything else, it's just something which exists and something we can use if we wish, for good or for evil.

2. Is the writer correct in its interpretation of what Jesus wanted of us and politics

I would say that it is not per my personal theology. I wouldn't hold it if I didn't think it was what Jesus had in mind.

3. If mainstream Christian values are not addressed in politics, doesn

[buckthesystem]

I believe that we, as Christians, not only should become involved in politics but have a duty and a responsibilty to do so!

Unfortunately people today just accept things that they are told without finding out why? Is there a really good reason? Do I have to do - accept - that?

Christians seem to be very good at convincing themselves of things. They say "we should be concentrating on higher things" and think that that absolves them from any responsibility to try to change society. They might object to (say) abortion and might even go on protests against it, but do not accept that by paying taxes towards it they are actually being complicit in the act of abortion in the first place. So if they are serious about protesting abortion then they have to actively lobby to have the law changed on the grounds that "my money is being used to kill, and the Bible says thou shalt not kill".

I have heard "we should just pray that our leaders see the error of their ways" and this reminds me of the story about the man on top of a roof to escape a flood and the water was slowly rising and he would drown so he prayed for help and eventually a boat, then a helicopter, then another boat came along and he turned them all down saying "the Lord will get me out of here". Then when he drowned and complained to God, God said "well I sent you two boats and a helicopter". I.e. if we want change, we have a responsibility to go out and fight for it ourselves. How do we know that God is not using us to get things changed? Afterall, he cannot supernaturally fill the ballot boxes with Republican party votes, or something.

Another thing that some like to quote is Romans 13. I get the impression that some people would slit their own mother's throat if they were convinced that government told them to do it and believe that Romans 13 said they had to obey government.

America today has gone down the path of "presidential executive orders" to make laws that over-ride the constitution. These things are clearly evil and go against Christian teaching. Therefore, I think that Christians have a responsibility to literally approach the White House and say "hey, this isn't right, what about the constitution?". Christians have this responsibility because we can see - others may have the excuse that they "don't see what's wrong with it" - that some things are plainly wrong and evil.

I can't point you to any literature that agrees with any of these points because I haven't found any, all I seem to be able to find are articles saying things like "be a good Christian and keep your mind on higher things", "Read Romans 13 and heed it", "bad things must happen, accept it".

I really believe that God is telling us something different.

[s-one]

Lady Raven your words have been greatly appreciated. I agree with you whole heartedly and wonder how can any religion survive without some type of governing system. Thus you need politics involved to help promote or guard your beliefs, traditions, practices and specifically for Christianity, spread the good news. How can this be accomplished if you had Hitler sending people to gas chambers because of appeasing democracies failed with politics? Or terrorists trying to acquire nuclear weapons thus destroying a country that is helping with spreading Jesus

[s-one]

buckthesystem,

Thank you for your responses. I hear what you are saying and you make some good points. Do you happen to know if the author's theology or understanding of what Jesus wanted for us and politics is practice by a particular denomination since I'm gathering its not mainstream?

[buckthesystem]

Quote, Micen2: "awww you got me there....hmm...you made me think bout it...yea you're right....sigh.... yea I guess cause there are other polutants out there that are also killing me..(which i agree cars are devistating the the air we breathe) and considering that I will eventually die anyway....sigh ...yea you got me there...I guess I'm not thankful to God...for a bit cleaner enviroment airwise...and here's to your health...I now revoke my thankfulness on the matter as you have shown me the bitter truth. thankyou"

I must tell you that I didn't mean to be insulting, sorry if it sounded like I was being horrible.

I just wanted to point out, in my opinion anyway, the issue of banning smoking in public places is not even slightly about "2ndhand smoke" or "health issues" it is entirely about control-freakism. Afterall, public places by their nature belong to the public, not the government, so what right does the government have to push people around in their own space. I quite believe that next on the agenda will be your own home and car. Another reason to watch out for that traffic cop - if some imagines that they can smell smoke in your car or they find residue of tobacco in your car you will be fined heavily.

And as for your house, well if your neighbours or anyone else wants to "get back at you" for something, all they will have to do is contact a government agency and say they saw you smoking through the window.

[buckthesystem]

I'm so sorry about the above post being where it is. I really don't know what went wrong, I posted that in the wrong thread and as soon as I realised that something was wrong I "edited" it, and deleted all the text and then re-posted the text in the "tobacco advertsing thread".

Obviously something went wrong and that didn't work, but I don't know what I did wrong as it seemed to work - I mean when I pressed "edit" the original copy came back to me and when I pressed "delete" the text disappeared.

So can anyone help. Where did I go wrong?