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Total Depravity

endure4salvation

By endure4salvation
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stevehut

stevehut

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Posted

I think it's very simple, really.

The only barrier to heaven is unforgiven sin. Babies haven't sinned. Babies who die go straight to the presence of God, period.

Original Sin was explained for the first time by Augustine in the 4th (?) century, because he thought it odd that the church was baptizing people (babies) who had never sinned.

John Calvin took this idea and developed it further, calling it Total Depravity.

Read Ezekiel 18. Children are not held responsible for the sins of their parents.

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Guest mcm42

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Read Ezekiel 18. Children are not held responsible for the sins of their parents

This verse speaks of Judgement... that is how it will be executed in the end.

We are judged based on works, we are saved based on faith... a faith granted only by the father.

godrulz

godrulz

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Faith (live for God) or unbelief (live for Self) determines destiny (heaven/hell). Works/choices determine degrees of reward or punishment (lack).

Guest mcm42

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Faith (live for God) or unbelief (live for Self) determines destiny (heaven/hell). Works/choices determine degrees of reward or punishment (lack).

:hmmm: Nice way of putting it! Short and Sweet :t:

Guest LadyC

Guest LadyC

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Faith (live for God) or unbelief (live for Self) determines destiny (heaven/hell). Works/choices determine degrees of reward or punishment (lack).

:laugh: Nice way of putting it! Short and Sweet :t:

gee, i thought you believed that God's arbitrary election determined destiny (heaven/hell).

i'm so confused :suspect:

Guest mcm42

Guest mcm42

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LadyC Says:

gee, i thought you believed that God's arbitrary election determined destiny (heaven/hell).

i'm so confused

In Response to Mcm42:

Faith (live for God) or unbelief (live for Self) determines destiny (heaven/hell).

If you have read much of my other posts you would know that I believe that Faith is the gift referred to in eph 2:8,9 "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God"

So if the gift is faith, and I said that Faith determines Destiny (heaven/hell)... then God gives the gift, it's not of man's works, it is a GIFT (The Faith is the Gift)

God chooses who gets the gift of faith, not man... (that is to clarify my belief)

stevehut

stevehut

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Faith (live for God) or unbelief (live for Self) determines destiny (heaven/hell). Works/choices determine degrees of reward or punishment (lack).
godrulz

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Based on John 1;3 and I John (etc.), receiving or rejecting Christ determines destiny. This is the ultimate choice to live for God or live for Self and affects all subordinate choices (motive, thought, action). Rejecting the provision for eternal life results in separation from God for eternity. It is not that one sin is worse or better than another sin. One sin results in falling short of the glory of God and His perfect, holy standard. Sin is wrong moral choice and condemns us.

Works are a different issue and should not be confused with sin/sins. If you are a Protestant, you understand that salvation is based on grace/faith, not works. Therefore, works are a fruit of genuine faith and will be the basis for our 'rewards'.

Degrees of punishment will be determined by severity of sins...e.g Hitler is more culpable and blameworthy than the remote tribal African who attempts to live up to a moral code and has not heard the Gospel and about Jesus Christ (Rom. 3;6).

stevehut

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Based on John 1;3 and I John (etc.), receiving or rejecting Christ determines destiny.

And doesn't your behavior demonstrate whether or not you have accepted Christ? Or is intellectual belief sufficient?

godrulz

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thou knowest...

Latin theologians recognized faith as: knowledge (notitia), mental assent (assensus), and trust (fiducia).

Mere intellectual belief is insufficient (the devil believes in God and trembles- James).

God knows the heart and sees genuine trust.

Man can only judge the outward, so genuine faith will have outward evidence of a changed life for man to see.

Motive is important. Two church people can appear the same outwardly, but one's actions are praiseworthy because the motive is one of love for God and desire to glorify Him. The other does the same act to be seen by men, self-righteously (selfish) and this is not counted as a virtue.

Salvation will result in transformation in heart, mind, and character. The invisible faith will manifest in the fruit of the Spirit (Gal.) and good deeds (James).

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