Where can I find early Christian history?

[pointer]

Then look to the church that still stands since the beginning, because Christ said it would, even til the end of time. I believe it still stands, and still has set doctrines that are all true, not false, because that is how God works.

Is that the catholic church?

I do not know.

You don't? How are we, then, to look to the church that still stands since the beginning, if we have to look for it?

God works, apparently, by setting through His church doctrines that are all true, not false, but He has not told anyone which church that is. A strange God.

Sure he has read Mathew 16:18-19.....its all there.

An 'official' Catholic is sure to trundle out that old tale, but I'm not asking an official Catholic.

[Pax]

Then look to the church that still stands since the beginning, because Christ said it would, even til the end of time. I believe it still stands, and still has set doctrines that are all true, not false, because that is how God works.

Is that the catholic church?

I do not know.

You don't? How are we, then, to look to the church that still stands since the beginning, if we have to look for it?

God works, apparently, by setting through His church doctrines that are all true, not false, but He has not told anyone which church that is. A strange God.

Sure he has read Mathew 16:18-19.....its all there.

An 'official' Catholic is sure to trundle out that old tale, but I'm not asking an official Catholic.

Are you calling Christs' words an "old tale?"

[pointer]

Then look to the church that still stands since the beginning, because Christ said it would, even til the end of time. I believe it still stands, and still has set doctrines that are all true, not false, because that is how God works.

Is that the catholic church?

I do not know.

You don't? How are we, then, to look to the church that still stands since the beginning, if we have to look for it?

God works, apparently, by setting through His church doctrines that are all true, not false, but He has not told anyone which church that is. A strange God.

Sure he has read Mathew 16:18-19.....its all there.

An 'official' Catholic is sure to trundle out that old tale, but I'm not asking an official Catholic.

Are you calling Christs' words an "old tale?"

I wonder how gga4 interprets those words.

[Old Timer]

Pax, I am aware that these few verses from Matthew are interpreted by the Catholic Church to uphold their position that the

[Pax]

Pax, I am aware that these few verses from Matthew are interpreted by the Catholic Church to uphold their position that the

[billie]

Pax, you know I love you, but I've got to say it.

Christ didn't establish His Church in Matthew 16:18, 19. He said,"...on this rock, I will build My Church", not "I do build", or "I now build", or even just, "I build".

Also, you'll have a very hard time indeed convincing anyone who isn't already coming to the table with that idea(not that I think you're trying to), that John 21's seeting Peter up as head of the Church. It could be read into the passage, but not out of it.

I must agree with you on there being only one true Church.

[pointer]

Pax, I am aware that these few verses from Matthew are interpreted by the Catholic Church to uphold their position that the

[Pax]

Pax, you know I love you, but I've got to say it.

Christ didn't establish His Church in Matthew 16:18, 19. He said,"...on this rock, I will build My Church", not "I do build", or "I now build", or even just, "I build".

Also, you'll have a very hard time indeed convincing anyone who isn't already coming to the table with that idea(not that I think you're trying to), that John 21's seeting Peter up as head of the Church. It could be read into the passage, but not out of it.

I must agree with you on there being only one true Church.

Billie,

Your words don't offend me at all. I respectfully disagree with you. You will notice in my last post that Jesus established His Church in Mathew 16:18-19. It was not completed until Pentecost. That is why Christ uses the word "will", it wasn't completed until a year later when the Holy Ghost descended upon the disciples.

Christ is telling Peter he will be the head of the Church in Mathew 16, this is obvious. In John 21: 15-19, Christ has returned from the resurrection and tells Peter "Feed my lambs, Feed my sheep."

[Pax]

Pax, you know I love you, but I've got to say it.

Christ didn't establish His Church in Matthew 16:18, 19. He said,"...on this rock, I will build My Church", not "I do build", or "I now build", or even just, "I build".

Also, you'll have a very hard time indeed convincing anyone who isn't already coming to the table with that idea(not that I think you're trying to), that John 21's seeting Peter up as head of the Church. It could be read into the passage, but not out of it.

I must agree with you on there being only one true Church.

Billie lets look at what Christ said in Mathew 16:18 "And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail." O.k. lets stop there for now. Jesus is clearly talking to Peter, we all can agree on this I hope. Peter is also clearly being called the rock, of which Christ say I will build My Church.

Now lets move on to the next verse of which you didn't address.

Mathew 16:19 "I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

Once again I think we call agree that Christ is talking to Peter. He is giving Peter a special responsibility that He gives no other person. I would love to hear what all of you think about this verse.

[pointer]

Christ is telling Peter he will be the head of the Church in Mathew 16, this is obvious. In John 21: 15-19, Christ has returned from the resurrection and tells Peter "Feed my lambs, Feed my sheep."

That isn't "Peter, you are the greatest of the disciples, so I am leaving the church in your care as my vicar on earth." Now that would be obvious.