Where can I find early Christian history?

[EricH]

and was indeed in need of reform, we can see how important the Reformation was.

All of the prominent reformers declared the RCC to be the seat of AntiChrist, or similar. It was and is not nearly as simple an analysis as that, imv, but that it was said seems to me to be a very important fact indeed, that should not be forgotten.

Please, please please. Lets not say things that are going to require defense by our Catholic brothers. The intent of the OP was to ask wherehe could read regarding the history of the early church. Lets limit the discussion to some good sources for such reading.

[Pax]

Pointer is upset that you might read some Catholic writings.

I don't much care if people read those. People tend to bring their ideas to forums ready formed. If they believe these writings to be consonant with Scripture, they deserve everything they get. Whatever that may be.

Ignatious was a Catholic

There are scholars today who think he did not exist, but was an invention of the 3rd or 4th century. Whoever wrote those letters, he/they got more 'Obey your bishop' commands per square inch than in any other work. (There is not one in Scripture.)

Of course, this command is very likely to backfire on those who claim apostolic succession, because they cannot prove such a thing, so they may end up having to obey people like me. Which would not go down too well, I think. But it's up to them.

Not that it matters much who wrote these letters. Paul warned 'from among your own number' false teachers would arise, and 'Ignatius' would fit that bill precisely. After his strong warning, it seems irresponsible to take anything as safe that is not universally agreed to be Scripture.

Ignatious never existed??? Boy I have never heard this one before, I gues if you can't refute the truth, you just say it never existed.

[Pax]

and was indeed in need of reform, we can see how important the Reformation was.

All of the prominent reformers declared the RCC to be the seat of AntiChrist, or similar. It was and is not nearly as simple an analysis as that, imv, but that it was said seems to me to be a very important fact indeed, that should not be forgotten.

Remember Pointer bitterness is like an acid, it eats from the inside out.

[Smalcald]

Well that would not be legitimate according to Pointer. There were no Christian believers on the earth after the Apostles and prior to Wyclif.

That is the problem; as that would mean that there is NO legitimate and true early Church to read about.

[pointer]

Our friend Pointer seems to believe either that the Apostles somehow appointed a bunch of very evil unbelievers as their successors

Is it much easier to deal with what you say I think, as distinct from what I actually write? If not, you will be able to justify that statement, which seems to me to be patronising, false and deliberately offensive.

the Scriptural Commentaries of the men closest to the Apostles themselves, ought to be given more weight than commentaries written 1500 years later!

That depends on how closely a commentator adheres to what the apostles wrote. Elapsed time is totally irrelevant. What many people note is that no-one, absolutely no-one in the years before Wyclif represented Scripture at all accurately, and indeed had written the most amazing heresy from an early date. It was that factor that brought about the Reformation.

It would probably come as a great surprise to Pointer to find out that the men who DECIDED WHAT BOOKS OF THE BIBLE HE WOULD BE READING, were ring-kissing, sign-of-the-cross-making, pointy-hat-wearing, be-robed BISHOPS!

There is only one person who decides what I consider to be Scripture, and that is me. Emperor's councils are invalid and indeed invariably heretical, to me.

[pointer]

Well that would not be legitimate according to Pointer. There were no Christian believers on the earth after the Apostles and prior to Wyclif.

That is the problem; as that would mean that there is NO legitimate and true early Church to read about.

Indeed. Why should there be?

[pointer]

The intent of the OP was to ask wherehe could read regarding the history of the early church. Lets limit the discussion to some good sources for such reading.

What would you recommend, Eric?

[Pax]

There is only one person who decides what I consider to be Scripture, and that is me. Emperor's councils are invalid and indeed invariably heretical, to me.

This line from Pointer sums it all up. He thinks that he is going to have a more accurate understanding of scripture than the early Church fathers who hand first hand contact with the apostoles. How logical does that sound?

[Guest yod]

There is only one person who decides what I consider to be Scripture, and that is me. Emperor's councils are invalid and indeed invariably heretical, to me.

This line from Pointer sums it all up. He thinks that he is going to have a more accurate understanding of scripture than the early Church fathers who hand first hand contact with the apostoles. How logical does that sound?

The ECF (early church fathers) were men and their words are not on par with scripture. However, I do encourage anyone looking for early church history to study what they said in the Didache. You'll find that gnostics are close to modern charismaniacs who go overboard in what "the spirit" told them with utter disregard to the context of what a biblical foundation says.

The Catholic Encyclopedia is a great resource also. It can be found online or in 60+ huge volumes in the library.

I'm amazed at the things they admit in it...

(jk Pax)

[Leonard]

As far as Christian history goes, Shedd is a classic. More contemporary works are hardly better, although some briefer and less academic ones are now available. One thinks of The Church Through 20 Centuries, by Kuyper. It is fairly easy reading and a balanced if brief treatment. There is also Christian History magazine, which gives a good variety of viewpoints, and is invariably a good read.

PS: I found it VERY amusing that Pointer could accuse SOMEONE ELSE of being 'patronizing and deliberately offensive'!

"Behold, how doth it settle

that the greatpot bethinks himself now

to blackard the kettle?"