More on Jesus camps

[Smalcald]

Well I see your point to some degree.

But I liked camp, it is fun to go away and camp and be in nature, at least it was for me as a boy and as a teenager, I still like camping and maybe that is why?

We had a great active youth group at my church and it really helped me. I mean parents often have to work in the summer, and besides I wanted to be with boys my own age, not with my little brothers and siting around listening to my dad teach, teach what? It would be great if all of our dads were these great spiritual models able to teach scripture etc, but most are not, some can't read very well, some work all of the time.

So as long as these are just normal church camps with a little Pentecostal flair, that is cool with me, much better than spending the summer hanging out at the mall or getting into trouble around the neighborhood.

I will say there is an age appropriateness issue with this though. I think five IS to young to be sent away, but that is a personal parenting philosophy. The thing to watch in all youth programs is the qualifications and backgrounds of those staffing the camps. It should be professional; it should include background and reference checks for all counselors, regardless of age. I mean I liked camp, BUT as an adult I have heard and seen some horrible things happen at some camps, but this would be true of any youth program and I am waaaay of the topic now>

[LadyRaven]

Well I see your point to some degree.

But I liked camp, it is fun to go away and camp and be in nature, at least it was for me as a boy and as a teenager, I still like camping and maybe that is why?

We had a great active youth group at my church and it really helped me. I mean parents often have to work in the summer, and besides I wanted to be with boys my own age, not with my little brothers and siting around listening to my dad teach, teach what? It would be great if all of our dads were these great spiritual models able to teach scripture etc, but most are not, some can't read very well, some work all of the time.

So as long as these are just normal church camps with a little Pentecostal flair, that is cool with me, much better than spending the summer hanging out at the mall or getting into trouble around the neighborhood.

I will say there is an age appropriateness issue with this though. I think five IS to young to be sent away, but that is a personal parenting philosophy. The thing to watch in all youth programs is the qualifications and backgrounds of those staffing the camps. It should be professional; it should include background and reference checks for all counselors, regardless of age. I mean I liked camp, BUT as an adult I have heard and seen some horrible things happen at some camps, but this would be true of any youth program and I am waaaay of the topic now>

I think though that camping itself is not the issue, camping is fun and I haven't criticised the boy scouts...it's how do we approach the issue of children and how to bring them up in the Lord. I think we cheat them by making things like this and making these types of things the means of inculcating doctrine and a relationship with God. Good doctrine is learned best among the rest of the flock, along side the parents if they are believers and along side some other role models if they are not. And once home it's the father's job (tho if you are a single mom it's on you lol). That is the scriptural model and I believe it to be the most appropriate for just about any type of learning.

I actually had the opportunity to attend a church like this in Ohio, where children stayed in worship with the parents at all ages and there was only one sunday school class. (I actually attended Redeemer, a daughter congregation of DaytonOPC, under pastor Jackson but he's moved to the parent church now...and it seems since I've left they've launched another daughter church in Indiana) In fact, I wanted to post a paper Pastor Jackson had written about children in the church, but...for some reason the essays and articles section is down on the site now. It was even more appropriate because it went from where Mr Schlect had gone and then into the role of the covenant community and was very insightful.

Yes, our children did everything with parents in church (unless certain topics were discussed, then an alternate lesson was planned for the kids which was similar but not...) When we had conferences the kids were there with the parents....etc... My children have learned doctrine sitting right along side me since then. Even when we moved and they had separate programs for them I kept them with me anyway. When I moved from the church with the covenantal family study model to my next church, they were shocked at the questions my son was asking in Sunday School...or about the sermon afterwards. They were good questions, questions adults ask here, and at the time he was 8. They also were with me when I listened to teaching tapes in the car and what not. Children are sponges and pick up many things. They are to learn to love the Lord in the company of the rest of the congregation, and hopefully from their parents as well.

[KeilanS]

This is quite the debate indeed... well I am but a boy of 15, but I figure I can at least share my thoughts.

I think that a balance between intelligence and emotion is needed to have a strong faith.

I wish I had more emotion at times, I very rarely cry, only several times have I cried in connection with God... I think it is something Christians need to do once in awhile, and as for a rational basis... I have no doubt it's there, but thinking about it during the moment is likely to take away from it's effect...

Being intelligent in the faith is also very important. How are you ever going to avoid doubting your faith if you have no way to back it up? Emotion alone is powerful, but God didn't create us to be drones, he gave us the ability to learn for a reason.

So anyways, I think that emotion does always have a rational explanation behind it, however taking time to think about that often ruins the experiance. And explaining it should come after the emotion, if we find ourselves thinking "Hmm, that person has been affected by sin, I had better cry" then the emotions probably arn't real. Looking back on the situation and being able to explain it is a good thing as well, so like I said, there needs to be a balance of these things.

God BLess,

Keilan

[Guest pafalam]

That video hurt feeling's, children crying, in Lithuania, we say it is WRONG. bad.

[LadyRaven]

This is quite the debate indeed... well I am but a boy of 15, but I figure I can at least share my thoughts.

I think that a balance between intelligence and emotion is needed to have a strong faith.

I wish I had more emotion at times, I very rarely cry, only several times have I cried in connection with God... I think it is something Christians need to do once in awhile, and as for a rational basis... I have no doubt it's there, but thinking about it during the moment is likely to take away from it's effect...

Being intelligent in the faith is also very important. How are you ever going to avoid doubting your faith if you have no way to back it up? Emotion alone is powerful, but God didn't create us to be drones, he gave us the ability to learn for a reason.

So anyways, I think that emotion does always have a rational explanation behind it, however taking time to think about that often ruins the experiance. And explaining it should come after the emotion, if we find ourselves thinking "Hmm, that person has been affected by sin, I had better cry" then the emotions probably arn't real. Looking back on the situation and being able to explain it is a good thing as well, so like I said, there needs to be a balance of these things.

God BLess,

Keilan

I agree there is a balance to an extent but unfortunately I do believe we have strayed in the main culture to an extent. To the point that we have emotion for all the wrong reasons. I mean why do we have people like Dr Phil who have to come along and say to people "In what universe, in what belief system, is this ok?" People feel and do things which are NOT ok and they are basing it on SOMETHING. If I hit you, something in my heart allows for that in some way. I have a thought and a belief which includes the right to hit you under certain circumstances.

Besides the whole isolation of the youth aspect shown by this clip...I do have a problem with the militaristic language used due to the times and culture that most of these children will be living in. Are they mature enough intellectually and logically to distinguish between being a warrior for God which is a spiritual concept and a jihadist which is not?

I would say that the chances of that are very slim. Some of these children are five, they can't even explain why five always means the same amount of things whether it's beans or baseballs. If their minds cannot fathom this basic fact, it's rather difficult to expect them to handle something so cerebral as "spiritual warfare"?

Of course I base this on some very important beliefs having to do with the human mind and how it develops and my philsophy of education, which I see as very biblical. And it doesn't really have the space for a concept of elementary aged children who are emotionally, intellectually and spiritually developed enough for the concepts in this film.