Luke 17:35,7

[kenod]

Can someone help me with this, please?

Luke 17:35,7 "Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken, the other left. 'Where, Lord?' they asked. He replied, 'Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.'"

First question: Is this about the Rapture or the Second Coming?

Next question: Is Jesus saying our bodies will be left behind? I thought our bodies would be raised and changed(glorified)?

I believe it refers to the Rapture.

The Greek word for eagles (aetoi) does indeed mean eagles. The reason translators have substituted "vultures" is because they see the body (or carcase) as carrion, and the "gathering" of the birds as typical of the flocking of vultures around rotting meat.

So it is an interpretation of the word, not a direct translation. The Greek word "aetos/aetoi" is used three more times in the NT, and always refers to those who worship God. Even in the OT there are striking references to eagles as God's children (Psalm 103:5, Isaiah 40:31).

It is interesting to note that the word taken comes from the same Greek word as take in Joseph, thou Son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife (Mat 1:20).

It is also the same Greek word that is translated receive in I will come again and receive you unto myself (John 14:3).

Those who are "taken" are caught up to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thes 4:17), just as Noah and Lot were taken to a place of refuge before the judgment of God fell.

The activities Jesus mentions (sleeping, grinding and working in the field) are day time and night time activities, and indicate that this is a world-wide event: wherever God's children are gathered and feeding on His Word. So it cannot refer to Jerusalem 70AD, or to the battle of Armageddon, which are localised in one place.

The "eagles" (believers) are feeding on the Word of God. The metaphor of "eating" is often used to represent believing God's Word.

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

.

Edited January 1, 2007 by kenod

[kenod]

Just an interesting little note - somebody on another forum just pointed out to me that an eagle is a raptor (bird of prey). Both words - raptor and rapture - come from the original Latin word "raptus" meaning to seize.

When Jerome translated the Latin Vulgate Bible (382-405 AD) he translated the Greek word for "caught up" (1 Thes 4:17) with a word derived from '"raptus". From this we get our present day word "rapture".

[Pilgrim7]

The Rapture and the 2nd are the same event. There is no 7 year Tribulation period, that arose from a mis-understanding and mis-interpretation of the 490 year period in Daniel that has already been fulfilled . More teachings of man. The reason Jesus comes for His people, is because of the tribulation that is going on. The 'false christ', the 'anti-christ' has gathered the whole world, in the name of 'christianity' against the true followers of the true Christ and are trying to exterminate them for they hold to the Bible as it is written and don't follow the teachings of man.

Jesus is quite clear in Luke 17 where he tells those who hear His voice what His 2nd coming will be like. This why He said what He said in Luke. He didn't say it to fool us, or to set us off on a endless speculation of what He meant, or to make us have to go to those with a degree in hermeneutics to understand. He said what He meant. He didn't codify it, but aimed it at the common, uneducated people, so simple that even a child can understand it.

Here is the context that led up to Jesus telling them what His 2nd Coming would be like and the setting up of His kindgom:

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

Now Jesus tells His disciples about the kingdom and His 2nd coming and warns them of false teachers who said the kingdom would be on this earth when Jesus comes the 2nd time:

Luke 17:22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when you shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and you shall not see it. (you won't see it on this earth at this time, only after the 1000 years. When Jesus comes this 2nd time, the only time He comes for His people, this time in the clouds to take His people away to heaven to the place He has been preparing them)

17:23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them (don't follow their teaching) .

After warning them that it would not be secret, He tells them what His coming to rapture His people would be like:

Lu 17:24 For as the lightning, that lightens out of the one part under heaven, shines unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. (the day of His 2nd coming)

Lu 17:25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.

Now Jesus goes on to compare His 2nd Coming to the days of Noah in which God rescues His people and destroys the wicked at the very same time, by the very same event. We are not left having to guess at the meaning.

Lu 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

I know it is difficult to put aside the teachings of man, Pastors, Theologians and such, but read the scriptures as a child, imploring the leading of the Holy Spirit and He will lead you into all truth. Read the whole context through, don't just cease on a verse or two. God wants us all to understand His word. It is the wisdom of educated men that can't seem to grasp the simplicity of the Scriptures. You see God wrote them to hide the truth from the supposedly wise.

Mt 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank you, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hid these things from the (worldly) wise and prudent, and have revealed them unto babes. (notice that the babes didn't consult men and the teachings of men, but that God revealed it to them, but not to those with worldly wisdom)

11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in your sight.

I know this verse offends many who think themselves wise, but it is the Word of Jesus.

God Bless,

Dennis

[kenod]

Luke 17:24

For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven,

shineth unto the other part under heaven;

so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Jesus said: "I am the light of the world".

But only a minority will see the Light.

There are three groups that will not see the Light of the "lightning"

- those who are asleep (spiritually asleep)

- those who are blind (spiritually blind)

- those who are dead (spiritually dead).

.

Edited January 3, 2007 by kenod

[Floatingaxe]

Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Every eye will see Him at His coming, yes! But He will have the Church with Him, having enjoyed her beforehand as the Bridegroom, now coming as the Conqueror King.

1 Thessalonians 4:14

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

[kenod]

Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.

Every eye will see Him at His coming, yes! But He will have the Church with Him, having enjoyed her beforehand as the Bridegroom, now coming as the Conqueror King.

1 Thessalonians 4:14

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Do you see the comings mentioned in Mat 24:27 and Mat 24:30 as the same event? I know many people do.

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

I see verse 27 as the rapture (John 14:3, 1 Thes 4:16-17, Rev 19:9), and I see verse 30 as the second coming when Jesus physically returns to the earth to rule and reign (2 Thes 2:8, Rev 1:7, Rev 19:11-16).

The "coming" in v27 is as the lightning, which I understand as a sudden, unexpected catching away of the saints.

At the "coming" in v30, He "cometh with clouds" and "every eye shall see Him".

So, according to my understanding, Jesus actually comes three times:

1. He comes to redeem His Bride - to die for our sins

2. He comes to catch His Bride away - the rapture

3. He comes with His Bride to rule and reign on the earth

I know it is a matter of some disagreement, but as long as we are loving and serving the Lord Jesus with all our heart and soul, I believe He will take care of us all.

.

Edited January 4, 2007 by kenod

[Pilgrim7]

Here is the rest of Thessalonians describing both the rapture and the 2nd coming in one event, at one time. He didn't want us to be ignorant, but to understand:

1th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep (dead), that you sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. (bring them to Himself and take them with Him and the raptured ones to heaven)

4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (preceed) them which are asleep.

4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: (the rapture is not secret, but seen by all just as in the days of Noah) and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the dead in Christ rise to meet Jesus in the Clouds before the living are raptured at the 2nd coming. He then brings them together to heaven.)

4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

They are dead, sleeping in Jesus, when He comes, He wakes them with a shout, like He did Lazarus, and brings them up to himself before rapturing the living Saints. He doesn't bring them from heaven because they are not there, they sleep in the grave. This is when every eye sees him. Now all the saved go to heaven and the 'New Jerusalem' for the thousand years. Then after the 1000 years, they all come back down to earth in the 'heavenly city' to inherit the 'New Earth' forever.

God Bless,

Dennis

[kenod]

Mat 24:39-40

And knew not until the flood came, and

took

them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be

taken

, and the other left.

It is interesting to note that the words "took" (v39) and "taken" (v40) do not come from the same Greek word. They are completely different. The first includes the meaning of destroyed, the second does not.

The second word (taken) comes from the same word which is used for take (Mat 1:20), receive (John 14:3), and taken (Acts 1:2)

Mat 1:20

Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to

take

unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and

receive

you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Acts 1:2

Until the day in which he was

taken

up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

Where the food is, the eagles will be gathered together.

Hebrews 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Psa 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.

Isa 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles;

Edited January 6, 2007 by kenod

[Pilgrim7]

Kenod,

Not sure what you mean by your reference to eagles and food.

Mt 24:27 For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (He comes to gather, rapture, His people, all of them, as in the days of Noah and Lot.)

24:28 For wheresoever the carcase (dead body) is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (these are those 'left behind', they are destroyed by the brightness of His coming, and thus the foul devour thier dead bodies.)

Do you mean that these are literal birds eating literal dead bodies or are saying that it is something figurative?

God Bless,

Dennis

[kenod]

Kenod,

Not sure what you mean by your reference to eagles and food.

Mt 24:27 For as the lightning comes out of the east, and shines even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (He comes to gather, rapture, His people, all of them, as in the days of Noah and Lot.)

24:28 For wheresoever the carcase (dead body) is, there will the eagles be gathered together. (these are those 'left behind', they are destroyed by the brightness of His coming, and thus the foul devour thier dead bodies.)

Do you mean that these are literal birds eating literal dead bodies or are saying that it is something figurative?

God Bless,

Dennis

I believe it is figurative, Dennis.

Look up the the word used for eagles, and then check out where it is used elsewhere in the NT. It always refers to those who worship God.

I believe the ones "taken" are the saints, who are taken up in the rapture. Refer to my last post for the meaning of the word "taken".

The word carcase is not rotting carrion, it is fresh meat ("strong meat" Paul says), food for the eagles. It cannot be the battle of Armageddon because Jesus' words indicate that it is a world wide event (night and day).

Anyway, that's the way I see it.

Edited January 7, 2007 by kenod