Ask a Catholic

[Fiosh]

55Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.

Yeah, that is another obvious one.

Not sure what you mean, artsylady. What is obvious and why/how???

I'll bold the obvious part. Why it's obvious is because why would they call Mary the mother of James and Joses unless she was their mother. Somehow, no offense, but I think you'll come up with a very complicated answer for this.

Funny, I think this makes MY case. Obviously, this was a different Mary, or else the writer would have said, "the mother of Jesus".

[artsylady]

Funny, I think this makes MY case. Obviously, this was a different Mary, or else the writer would have said, "the mother of Jesus".

If you're right, then Mary the mother of Jesus q) wasn't mentioned as being at the crucifixion, or b) was there but the writer felt she wasn't significant enough to even mention.

I think it's pretty obvious that this woman was the same woman mentioned as the mother of Jesus, because the verse speaks of women already known to readers and the only other Mary was Mary Magdeline who is also mentioned.

[Fiosh]

You misunderstand my point. What I am saying is that there is no one but Jesus who is specifically referred to as "the son of Mary".

I'm not speaking to the term brother of Jesus here, but specifically---"son of Mary" .

When was he specifically called the 'son of Mary' except for during the time of his birth? Actually, I'd like to examine every verse that he's called the 'son of Mary' if you don't mind.

This leaves two other possibilities. The term "adelphos" is used in one of its other common usages i.e. cousin or other relative or close friend. Or Joseph was a widower who had children from a prior marriage.

I'm not sure why you would come to any conclusions like the above because Jesus was ever called the 'son of Mary'.

I'm curious. Why is it so important to you that Mary was not a perpetual virgin??

?

Honestly it wouldn't matter if she remained a virgin or not. I could not care either way. But there would have to be SOME verses or at least ONE verse to state this in order for me to beleive it. Otherwise, why would I?

It sure seems to me that based on the verses we do have, she went on and had more children.

Please show me even one verse where it calls someone "son of Mary" other than Jesus.

Mt 2:11 They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother

Mt 13:55 Is he not the carpenter's son? Is not his mother named Mary

Mk 6:3 Is he not the carpenter, the son of Mary

Luke 2:34 and Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, "Behold, this child is destined for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be contradicted

Acts 1:14 and Mary the mother of Jesus

[Fiosh]

I don't know who Alan Shreck is, but he's not one of the writers of the Bible.

There are however, verses in the Bible forbidding us to contact the dead.

Saints in heaven aren't dead--they are alive in and with Christ! Alleluia!

Who do you think God warned us against contacting?

Those who were physically dead. How else would we be able to contact anyone unless they were somehow alive. In any case, it's forbidden. I think you're avoiding the reality of God's command. He was clear that we should not contact the dead. And He didn't mean 'spiritually dead'. He meant 'physically dead'.

Could you please cite the Scripture references for contacting the dead? Thanks.

Jesus talked with Moses and Elijah.

[artsylady]

Please show me even one verse where it calls someone "son of Mary" other than Jesus.

Sorry, I meant to say other than at Jesus birth. Anyway.

Mt 2:11 They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother

Reads, "On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary and they bowed down and worshipped HIM. . Then they opened their treasures and presented HIM with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrhh".

I'm not sure why I even asked who called Mary the mother of Jesus. I can't remember where I might have been going with that because we all do agree Mary was Jesus earthly mother.

Long day. Anyway, notice there is no mention of any kind of special treatment to Mary at all, only Jesus.

[Fiosh]

I think I'll give up on this thread. People will see what they want to see.

No offense to anyone but I dont care to debate with beleivers on anything unless a person is willing to open up mind and consider that they might be wrong.

I'd rather just concentrate on reaching those who don't believe.

Fair enough. Not everyone enjoys debate.

I'm not close-minded, artsylady, I'm right.

Love,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

Regarding the wine and bread turning into Jesus body and blood. In this day of advanced medical science it would be very easy to prove this concept if it were true. Why doesn't the Vatican pay to have this study done, to show the actual physical change from wine to blood when it enters a human being? Obviously it doesn't change when it hits the persons mouth because it still tastes like wine, but if this reaction really did take place (in the stomach, intestines?) it could be proven quite easily.

Now, you do agree that Jesus used many metaphors, that were just symbolism right?

One more to think about. No response needed. I only rewrote it because if you're honest with yourself you didn't come close to answering the question. You sidestepped it with a very lengthy answer though.

I didn't side step it at all. I gave a thorough answer to a good question.

If you want a simple answer, then.....

Yes, Jesus used metaphors, but not in this case.

No, you can not prove Real Presence scientifically. I accept it by faith.

Peace,

F

[Fiosh]

Funny, I think this makes MY case. Obviously, this was a different Mary, or else the writer would have said, "the mother of Jesus".

If you're right, then Mary the mother of Jesus q) wasn't mentioned as being at the crucifixion, or b) was there but the writer felt she wasn't significant enough to even mention.

I think it's pretty obvious that this woman was the same woman mentioned as the mother of Jesus, because the verse speaks of women already known to readers and the only other Mary was Mary Magdeline who is also mentioned.

It's important to look at all of Scripture and not pick and choose verses.

It makes no sense to me that Jesus is hanging on the cross and yet the writer would refer to His mother as "the mother of James and Joseph", or something similar. That's imcomprehensible to me!

Notice in Matthew the "mother of James and Joseph" is mentioned; and in John the "wife of Clophas" is mentioned as Mary's cousin. If these are the same person, and it's a good chance that they are, that would make James and Joseph Jesus' cousins---adelphos.

Also, note that the Gospel writers refer to these other Mary's as "women who has followed Jesus from Galilee", and as those who were "standing at a distance; hardly a description that would be given to Jesus' very mother!

Now note in John that the Blessed Mother is "Standing by the cross of Jesus ", and is referred to as "his mother".

Nope, those other Mary's are not the mother of Jesus. She was right there under the cross.

God bless,

Fiosh

Matt 27: 55

There were many women there, looking on from a distance, who had followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering to him.

56

Among them were Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee.

Mark 15:40

There were also women looking on from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of the younger James and of Joses, and Salome.

41

These women had followed him when he was in Galilee and ministered to him. There were also many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem.

Luke 23: 47 The centurion who witnessed what had happened glorified God and said, "This man was innocent beyond doubt."

48

When all the people who had gathered for this spectacle saw what had happened, they returned home beating their breasts;

49

but all his acquaintances stood at a distance, including the women who had followed him from Galilee and saw these events.

John 19: 25

Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala.

26

When Jesus saw his mother 11 and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son."

27

Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.

[Fiosh]

Please show me even one verse where it calls someone "son of Mary" other than Jesus.

Sorry, I meant to say other than at Jesus birth. Anyway.

Mt 2:11 They were overjoyed at seeing the star, and on entering the house they saw the child with Mary his mother

Reads, "On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary and they bowed down and worshipped HIM. . Then they opened their treasures and presented HIM with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrhh".

I'm not sure why I even asked who called Mary the mother of Jesus. I can't remember where I might have been going with that because we all do agree Mary was Jesus earthly mother.

Long day. Anyway, notice there is no mention of any kind of special treatment to Mary at all, only Jesus.

That's one we agree on ----worship is for God alone! Amen!

[side note to "man"---notice the kings bow down and worship the Baby Jesus--fully God and fully man--Jesus in the flesh.]

[Rebmilc]

Hi Fiosh.

As a matter of interest if you were excommunicated from the RC church for any reason, would you consider yourself as still having any future left with God?