Doctrinal Questions

[Guest cleaninglady]

Hello,

I have a doctrinal question for everyone. Do you beleive that the gifts of the Spirit are real today? I am refering to those found in 1 Corinthians chapter 12. I have always been taught that they are not and died with the apostles. Things have happened to me to cause me to believe that they are real today. Thanks, cleaninglady

[endure4salvation]

It depends of what 'speaking in tongues' is to you.

What were they originally for? Read Acts 2 and you will see that it was so that when the original apostles were able to communicate the gospel to people in other languages--ones that they could not speak...I think it was 15 total languages, but I could be wrong.

Paul also pointed out that speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelivers....not for believers. If they are standing there babbling and no one interprets it...what good is it? It just makes them look silly, IMO.

[Catsmeow]

I don't know about tongues but welcome, Cleaninglady...

BTW, we could always use your services at our home, LOL!

[Guest cleaninglady]

Yes in Acts 2 speaking in tongues is used to share with everyone there the gospel message. It was spoken in other people's languages so that they could undrstand this 'new message'.

But 1 Corinthians is telling the church how to conduct 'spiritual gifts' and what they are.

1 Cor.12 8-10

To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by the same spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and still to another the interpretation of tongues.

If you read the whole chapter you can see that Paul is telling them how to conduct a service. Does anyone still do services this way?

[endure4salvation]

Yes, it is def. in there. I am not denying that it is Biblical. I don't know much about it. One of my great friends here goes to an Assembly of God church (Pentecostal) and I have heard tongues being spoken there. I also visited a Church of God (also Pentecostal) and heard them there as well.

But what was it originally intended for? To spread the word where there was a language barrior. We don't really have that here in America, do we? Maybe Spanish, but not much else here yet.

All this being said....I don't know...just some thoughts. Maybe we have someone here who knows more and will share it and correct me if I am wrong.

[Ovedya]

The Bible shows by example that "tongues" are the speaking of other known human languages, or dialects.

The Greek word for tongue is Glossa, which is used to describe a tongue as an organ, or a language or dialect used by people from other lands. Some would argue that Paul teaches that there is another form of tongue, the tongues of angels, in 1 Cor. 13:1. Yet Paul never claimed to be able to speak with the tongues of angels. This was not the point of his speaking. The King James renders 1 Cor. 13:1 as "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..." But the Greek indicates the word is more appropriately rendered "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels..." Since the subject of 1 Cor. 13 is love, Paul is not addressing the issue of being able to speak with the tongues of angels.

Yet some believe that there is a "prayer language" or a "prayer tongue" which is not a human tongue. If anything, they claim, it is the tongues of angels. I have yet to see any substantial Biblical evidence that there is a special "prayer tongue" or even that God has gifted the Body with the ability to speak in the tongues of angels. There is the "unknown tongue" spoken of in 1 Cor. 14, but I do not believe this to be an example of a "prayer tongue." It could simply be a tongue that it not known by the congregation, since the context of Paul's discourse is the church meetings.

I cannot say that any of the gifts have passed away. I do believe that they are use by God as they were in the first century church, however. The manifestations of the gifts today do not seem as prevailant as they were in the 1st century church. Why this is I cannot explain. I think that the Lord uses the member's abilities as He sees fit, not as we seem to want to emphasise; if that makes sense.

[Guest dove2]

Welcome Cleaning Lady. Yes, I do believe in tongues for today.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

I believe tongues are for today! I have personally spoken in tongues. I believe they are for edification of the church, and in personal prayer they are a way for your spirit to pray to the Father the things that truely need to be said. This is my personal belief.

[sagz4Christ]

It depends of what 'speaking in tongues' is to you.

What were they originally for?  Read Acts 2 and you will see that it was so that when the original apostles were able to communicate the gospel to people in other languages--ones that they could not speak...I think it was 15 total languages, but I could be wrong.

Paul also pointed out that speaking in tongues is a sign for unbelivers....not for believers.  If they are standing there babbling and no one interprets it...what good is it?  It just makes them look silly, IMO.

Jake, I tend to agree with you, though I would say that this particular gift, though is not in as much use as it was in the NT times, or even during the formation of the church. Just my conservative background.

Here is the verse you spoke of. GodsLove, I ask that you read this as it deals with your last post about tongues being for the church.

::EDIT:: to include Scripture reference

1 Corinthians 14:21-25

21In the Law it is written, "By people of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord." 22Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers. 23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds? 24 But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or outsider enters, he is convicted by all, he is called to account by all, 25 the secrets of his heart are disclosed, and so, falling on his face, he will worship God and declare that God is really among you.

Biblical tongues is meant for unbelievers. Though even Biblical tongues, as Jake said in Acts refers to actual languages spoken by people. I think of of it this way:

I am talking to a group of English speaking friends. All of a sudden, some Frech, German and a tribesman from Africa come walking by our group. They hear what I am saying as if I am speaking in their own language. I think I am talking in English, but the Gernam is hearing me speak Gernam, the Frenchman is hearing me speak French and the African is hearing me in his native "tongue."

This is the essence of Biblical tongues. My understanding (limited?) as it is. There was a time when I spoke the babble commonly refered to as tongues. Shortly after I was saved, I started attending some Pentacostal Church where it was a common experience to hear someone talk like that. I always felt uncomfortable, and forever wondered if they knew how silly they sounded. I had no idea what they were saying. It sounded like grown people talking baby talk to me. This (again in my opinion) is not Biblical tongues.

~IMMHO

~~your servant in Christ

[Guest shadow2b]

-------There was a time when I spoke the babble commonly refered to as tongues. Shortly after I was saved, I started attending some Pentacostal Church where it was a common experience to hear someone talk like that. I always felt uncomfortable, and forever wondered if they knew how silly they sounded. I had no idea what they were saying. It sounded like grown people talking baby talk to me. This (again in my opinion) is not Biblical tongues.

{how can one speak in a gift{tongues}given by the HOLY-SPIRIT before they are saved???

BABBLE??-BABBLE???This is the second night in a row where my spirit is "GRIEVED" because of the

ignorance of & vilification of GOD'S WORD & the gifts of THE HOLY-SPIRIT----

I-PRAY-OH-LORD-MY-GOD-THAT-YOUR-WORD-WILL-GO-FORTH-IN-TRUTH-IN-LOVE-&-IN-POWER--

Personal opinions have NO place when referring to GOD'S WORD --Either TEACH the WORD as it is WRITTEN or {KEEP SILENT}-TO term the GIFTS of the HOLY-SPIRIT as {BABBLE} is dangerously close to BLASPHEMY & THAT IS NOT MY OPINION IT IS SCRIPTURE!!!!!

TO INSULT the HOLY-SPIRIT by comparing HIS gifts to BABBLE IS the same as saying HIS gifts are

UNCLEAN OR BABBLE{babble comes from"babylon"}where GOD confused"cursed" the languages--

{how secure are you now in"cursing"the gifts of the HOLY-SPIRIT??}

mark.3.vss.28-29-30-------

Verily I say unto you,All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men,and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme;

But he that shall blaspheme against the HOLY-GHOST hath never forgiveness,

but is in danger of eternal damnation:

Because they said,HE hath an unclean spirit.......

LUKE.11.vs.13-------

IF ye then,being evil,know how to give good gifts unto your children;

how much more shall your heavenly FATHER give the HOLY-SPIRIT

to them that ask him?

1st.corin.12.vs.4------

Now there are diversities of gifts,but the same SPIRIT.{notice the SPIRIT}is a gift & HE IS HOLY

vs.7-------

But the manifestation of the "SPIRIT" is given to every man to profit withal...

vss.8-9-10-----ARE all gifts given by the {HOLY-SPIRIT} to each person to profit with--by-

vs.11--------

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame SPIRIT,dividing to every man severally as HE will---

{THE HOLY SPIRIT} gives the gifts TO "every man"to build themselves up {spiritually} & in the church{building--meeting house} ALL the gifts of the HOLY-SPIRIT can be used for the edification of the church body as a whole OR {at home } to build up--edify each individual believer--------

GOD-BLESS-ALL-TRUTHSEEKERS-------------------------Gary--