Doctrinal Questions

[JesusisGod2]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

In response to your question about what I disagree with you on, I believe it is a minor thing, but I set no boundaries on how, when or what is spoken of when speaking in "tongues". If we pray and we speak in tongues, it would behoove us to gain understanding from the Lord as to its meaning. If we prophecy in church and it comes through a tongue, there must be someone there, if not oneself that can and will give the interpretation and then 2 or 3 must judge the validity of it. Tongues MAY BE in the special language of angels, but it need not necessarily be so.

In one church where I attended, a story was related to me of an incident that occurred there. There was an altar call and one lady was at the altar quietly praying in tongues as the Lord lead. A Chinese lady that was not saved, felt it was necessary to go to the altar too. As she parked herself close to the first lady, she became amazed at what that lady was saying. It was as if the lady was speaking directly to her. After both finished praying, the Chinese lady asked the first lady how it is that she spoke Chinese. She said she didn't, and did not know a lick of Chinese. The Chinese lady was stunned. She went on to tell the first lady that it was not only Chinese, but the language was High Manderin(?), which normally was only spoken by the High Priests in the temples in China. The Chinese lady was convicted and gave her heart to the Lord.

My wife often begins her private prayers in English, but as she is moved by the Spirit, she slips into tongues, and has often sang in tongues. I have heard and others have heard people praying in the spirit and all of a sudden many start singing in tongues as if they were choreographed to do so. When you hear it is like the angels singing.

So I believe that tongues should be spoken with some decorum, and should never be lifted above the other gifts.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Hi Dad,

Thank you for such a beautiful response, God bless you.

I believe we agree on a lot more than we think.

I do believe tha one does pray in a tongues, and what a beautiful story about your wife, it brings joy to my heart to hear stories like that.

I guess what I was saying tho is that tongues are not specifically a prayer language, but a language that is for the building up of the body of Christ as happened with the Chinese lady. as well as edifying the speaker which happened in your wifes case.

I have trouble with speaking in tongues of angels though. My understanding of scriptures are that they are spoken in a tongue reconized somewhere in the world.

Not necessarily by the speaker or any one in church attendence. But it is a language that is spoken somewhere in the world.

Paul seems to emphasize this in 1 Cor 14:10

"There are it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world and none of them is without signification" Kjv

"undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world......" NIV

"There are perhaps a great many kinds of languages [/color]in the world, and no kind without meaning " Nasb

In verse 7 Paul says that a tongue has a distinct sound, this whole whole section is well worth the study and prayer.

Again brother, I believe the tongues are a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, just not all manifest them who have been baptised by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.

I love the testamony Dad, God bless.

In Jesus

Kevin

Paul Seems to iterate that the tongue spoken has meaning somewhere in the world, such as this beautiful incident you shared.

[irishcowboy]

are the Gifts of the Spirit still in effect this day????

ABSOLUTELY !!!!!!!!

no where have they been revolked.....

has there been proof??? yes,

on several occassions, ( just looking at the tongues and interpretation ) there has been recordings done during a service, where some one spoke in tongues, and there have been interpretations, upon examination of the word in tongues, found that it was actually a known language, but not by the person, and the word was given in proper syntax, proper sentence formation for that language.... and when the word in tongues, was translated it was exact to that of the interpretation.......

do I believe in the Gifts of the SPirit???? yes, have i seen them in action? yes, have i experienced them, yes, some, not all, for they are Gifts, given as the SPIRIT delivers....

was i a skeptic? yes, at one time i was, are all those that speak in " tongues" doing so under the guidance of the Spirit? no, i do not think so..... do you have to speak in tongues to be saved???? NO! that is only one (1) thing that is evidence that a person has the Spirit of the Lord in them....

there are those that are given the gifts of the Spirit, and some may have more then one, others may only have one given to them, and some may not want them, they may be afraid of them...... there are also those that will use them, missuse them, and even some abuse them....

they are for Edification, and Exaltation of the church and of God..... if we use them to edify ourselves, we need to do that in private between God and ourselves, not in public, our goal is to do as God wants, to Lift God on High, not ourselves.....

there will be times that a word in tongues is not interpreted, there could be several reasons for this, one would be the person that is receiving the interpretation, is not aware of what is happening, the message maybe for a single individual and that person has already received it, or the person givning the word in tongues may even be the one to interpret it, but is not willing to follow thru..... or, it may be just an overflowing of the Spirit, or it may not be actual.......

Discernment of the Spirits, will also come into play on this, and we are to look at the interpretation and judge it against the Word of God......

are the gifts working this day???? yes... they are.... in full force.......

mike

[JesusisGod2]

Thank you tiggr I was looking for that verse

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.KJV

I agree not all speak in tongues. Not all teach. All gifts are not for everyone. Unfortionately the UPC (united pentecostal church) believes that you have to speak in tongues to be saved. Pray for a girl that used to be in my youth group. She is in foster care and being housed by a person who attends a UPC church. I was there Sunday night, and she is praying with all of her heart for the gift of tongues. I feel bad for her because I know there is a chance she will not recieve it. I also know these people push hard for you to recieve it. I have seen them keep somone on their knees with hands upraised for over an hour praising the Lord and asking for this gift. They did it to me 11 yrs ago. Please pray for her. :prayer

Amen Godslove,

This is exactly what I was trying to get across that is happening in the church today and it is really ashamed.

As far as praying in tongues I dont have a problem with that, I just dont read where there is a specific prayer "language" of tongues. All tongues are reconized somewher in the world. It is not some new language that is just between the speaker and God that has never ben spoken somewhere.

Tiggr,

We agree on most things, so I hope that you dont think I dont believe that tongues are not an outward manifestation of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

What I am saying is that not all who have been baptised in the Holy Ghost will exhibit this manifestation.

You used some very good scriptures and I would like to extend the same advise to you as you have me, I would do a deeper study in the book of acts, you will find that not all who were baptised by the Spirit into the body of Christ spoke in tongues.

I say this in love and not in a vicous spirit, as I know it is sometimes taken wrong when seen in print rather that vocal.

Wordsower, if your response was directed at me, I am not arguing about the gift of tongues nor their not being a genuine gift from God.

(Where you get that there is even an arguement at all from anyone on this thread is beyond me.I see this thread is being discussed in love, but there are different views thats all.)

Just the fact that they are being abused and instead of being used to build up the body of Christ, some are using them unbeknowst to them are actually doing just the opposite, I was one of those whom the teaching of denomination almost destroyed my faith.

By the word of God restored that faith, and gave me an understanding into this wonderful gift of the Holy Spirit.

If any gift is not being used to first of all lift up and glorify the name of Jesus, then it is being abused.

And second if it is not used in building up and edifying the body of Christ then the same is happening.

God didnt give us these gifts to show how spiritual we are, but He gave them to us that through the Spirit of God we draw people closer to the risen Lord.

Read Dad Ernies testamony to see where this gift is used effectively by the Spirit of God to draw the lost to the Savior.

God bless

Kevin

[JesusisGod2]

Amen Mike Irish,

I am in total agreement.

Praise and lift up the Name of Jesus.

Kevin

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

As I first wrote, I believe "tongues" have more to do with "hearing", than I do the actual speaking. If all the tongues spoken were of some language that is presently heard on this earth, I would ask WHY would the Holy Spirit speak in Egyptian or Chinese in a crowd of English ONLY speaking Christians? Then there was the "language confusion" at the Tower of Babel. It appears obvious from the text that EVERYONE spoke the "same language" at one time. What language was that? Was it ever retained in any of the cultures that subsequently were formed? Then we have the flood and Noah. Did he revert to the ORIGINAL language? Or was he a progeny of one of the "confused languages"? I believe the latter. So what was taken away at the "confusion of languages"? Understanding perhaps? For the most part, I believe that was the case and ONLY those who continued to place their trust solely in God were able to HEAR, as did Noah. I don't believe he was given back the original tongue, but that he heard God in the language of the heavenlies, a spiritual or angelic language - a Universal language intended for those who HEAR.

If you can make any other sense out of the early language issues in the OT, then I would like to hear them.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[Guest dove2]

I must say that if a person never speaks in tongues it does not mean that they are not saved. You are just as saved as the next person.

The Holy Spirit must draw us to the Lord for salvation. There is a difference in having the Holy Spirit draw us and being Baptized in the Holy Spirit. When a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit they have accepted the gifts of the Holy Spirit to work in their daily life.

I have seen most scriptures mentioned except for one unless I over looked it.

Jude 20: "But ye beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Spirit)."

What is our most holy faith? Praying in the Holy Ghost (Spirit).

Jude is a real enlightenment but often we only glance over Jude because it is such a small book. However, it is full of truth.

[Anonymous]

I believe in the gift of tongues...

I do understand where some of you are coming from in your disbelief of them. I too was once skeptical of them until they were given to me. All I can say to you who do not believe, is not to stand in judgment against something you do not understand or have ever experienced for yourself!

Blessings~

AP

[JesusisGod2]

Greetings JesusisGod2,

As I first wrote, I believe "tongues" have more to do with "hearing", than I do the actual speaking. If all the tongues spoken were of some language that is presently heard on this earth, I would ask WHY would the Holy Spirit speak in Egyptian or Chinese in a crowd of English ONLY speaking Christians? Then there was the "language confusion" at the Tower of Babel. It appears obvious from the text that EVERYONE spoke the "same language" at one time. What language was that? Was it ever retained in any of the cultures that subsequently were formed? Then we have the flood and Noah. Did he revert to the ORIGINAL language? Or was he a progeny of one of the "confused languages"? I believe the latter. So what was taken away at the "confusion of languages"? Understanding perhaps? For the most part, I believe that was the case and ONLY those who continued to place their trust solely in God were able to HEAR, as did Noah. I don't believe he was given back the original tongue, but that he heard God in the language of the heavenlies, a spiritual or angelic language - a Universal language intended for those who HEAR.

If you can make any other sense out of the early language issues in the OT, then I would like to hear them.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Hi Dad,

Please be patient with me here, I mean no animosity nor claim I am right and you are wrong, I am merely stating my convictions and understanding of scripture.

That is a very interesting theory you have come with about the pre tower of babel days, but you must admit this is speculation on your part and cannot be backed up with scripture that I can tell, but it is worth study and I could be wrong.

Tongues were and are for the unbelievers sake not for the sake of the believers, and I couldn't agree more that the bigger miracle of tongues was the understanding or hearing, and you will notice that they understood in their own language.

At Pentecost, all that were in attendaence were Jews, these Jews were from all nations under heaven (Acts 2:5) and they all spoke different languages of the land from where they came from. This is truley a miracle being as the ones speaking in tongues were all Galilaens and yet they understood in their language.

But I will say that these verses dont say they were speaking every language, but that the hearers were hearing in their own language, so you might be on to something here. (As I am typing this, these thoughts are coming to me in my spirit.)

Dad I will say this, we do see the that the language spoken was more for the hearer than the speaker.

Thank you for your insight into this, I can see I need a lot more study and revelation into this truth.

But in closing, let me ask you this--- Do you believe that everyone who has been baptised by the Holy Spirit, speaks in tongues? I see evidense in the book of Acts where this is not so as well in 1 Cor.

God Bless Dad and If we dont respond before then have a great weekend!

In Jesus

Kevin

[JesusisGod2]

I believe in the gift of tongues...

I do understand where some of you are coming from in your disbelief of them. I too was once skeptical of them until they were given to me. All I can say to you who do not believe, is not to stand in judgment against something you do not understand or have ever experienced for yourself!

Blessings~

AP

AP, How are you sister?

I dont really think anyone is disputing that tongues are genuine and are active today.

As a matter of fact I covet the gift, but as of yet God has not manifested them in me, I believe He gave me all the gifts but has not and most likely will not manifest all of them in me. And I am grateful to God that He still displays these gifts in others as He wills

For it is one Spirit, Gods Spirit that imparts them and we all are baptised by this same Spirt into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13) but we all do not have the same function. 1 cor 12 Paul touches on the baptism of the Holy Ghost

Chapter 13 He shows the supremecy of love chapter 14 He explains the manifestation of and how the gifts are to work through love.

I am not skeptical of the gift, nor do I stand in judgement of those who speak, but am trying to get an understanding of the balance.

I will say that it is interesting that from my experiences with those who do speak in tongues, not all but quite a few,

Do stand in judgement of those who do not speak in tongues as ones who have not been baptised by the Holy Ghost and some I have even heard go as far as to not count such a one as saved.

This is what I am concerned with, and the only reason I have decided to respond to this thread.

Paul says in 1 Cor 12:13 "For one Spirit we were all baptised into one body..."

I am not trying to start trouble, or put one on the defensive, but just pointing out that one who speaks in tongues and one who dont are both by the same Spirit baptised into the same body.

God bless you sister

Kevin

[JesusisGod2]

I must say that if a person never speaks in tongues it does not mean that they are not saved. You are just as saved as the next person.

The Holy Spirit must draw us to the Lord for salvation. There is a difference in having the Holy Spirit draw us and being Baptized in the Holy Spirit. When a person is baptized in the Holy Spirit they have accepted the gifts of the Holy Spirit to work in their daily life.

I have seen most scriptures mentioned except for one unless I over looked it.

Jude 20: "But ye beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost (Spirit)."

What is our most holy faith? Praying in the Holy Ghost (Spirit).

Jude is a real enlightenment but often we only glance over Jude because it is such a small book. However, it is full of truth.

Hi Dove,

That is a very powerful verse and one I will pray over. As I have said I believe in the gift of tongues and I am sure it is very edifying and exhilerating to the one who speaks, ( though I cant speak from experience as of yet, but the day will come)

But to pray in the Holy spirit does not necessarily mean to pray in tongues, But to lift up the name of Jesus.

Notice in 1 Cor 1:3 "wherefore I give you to understand that No man speaking by the Holy Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed; and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit"

Here Paul says it is the autority of the Holy Spirit that grants us the power to say Jesus is Lord, so when we pray lifting up and praising our Lord Jesus, we are praying in the Holy Spirit, for without The Holy Spirit we cannot even say that Jesus is Lord.

This is pretty powerful.

Now we have established that the one who says that Jesus is Lord, does so by the Holy Spirit, after which Paul goes on to says this:

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit"

So Paul is saying there are various gifts distributed by the same Spirit. and goes on to explain that there are also different administrations and diversities of operation by the same Lord and God.

its interesting to note how the trinity is working as one in the distribution of such verse 4 says the Spirit --- verse says Lord and verse 6 says same God. I just wanted to share that I thought it was neat.

and goes on to explain the gifts and says

" But all these worketh that one and the very same Spirit, dividing to every man severally as He will"

I want to go on record as saying I love all my tongue talking brothers and sisters, and cant wait until I also have the gift manifested in me as well.

But until that day I still count myself very much blessed and very much baptised into the body of Christ by the very same Spirit that distributes this wonderful gift to the body.

God bless

Kevin