Jesus-myth or "copycat savior" myth refuted.

[anti-hillbilly]

I'll be praying.

Thank you dear.

Sorry to pull this thread off topic. But "copycat savior" myths are one of the things that played a part in this situation.

Edited October 20, 2006 by anti-hillbilly

[Floatingaxe]

How can a true beleiver turn from God?

It was a number of things but at the heart of were two things, he was an innerrant, bible believer and he is honest to a fault. To put it in a nutshell he painted himself in a corner with the Bible. I could make a list of questions that kept popping into his mind as he read the bible over and over and over but I won't because at this forum there are a lot of "innerrantists" and I wouldn't want to cause anyone to stumble the way he did. I've always been a liberal Christian; I'm not a bible innerrancy person so these questions didn't "throw" me the way they did him. He started spending a lot of time at Jewish websites asking questions right before he totally deconverted. I think those Left Behind books started the initial "unraveling" and the Jewish forums just finished it for him. -- I've prayed and tried to get him to attend my church [Prebysterian] and he won't do it. I think he's mad because he feels like he's been somehow "tricked". I told him I thought he was mad at God and he said he's not mad at God cause there isn't a God to be mad at; that people created God. I've just dropped it since then and thought it might be better to give him some time to "chill out" and regroup. I did ask him to keep his newfound atheism to himself and not be spouting off to the kids about it and he has, so far, done that for me.

He's not dead yet so it's never too late.

All prayers would be appreciated.

Anti-Hillbilly, as you know, I am a Bible literalist. I would be more than happy to attempt to answer the questions your husband has in relation to the scriptures. I have read the Bible through more than a dozen times, and have found that the so-called errors are not errors at all, but misunderstandings. I would hate for your husband to lose his place in heaven because he simply misunderstood something in the Bible and thought it was a mistake.

Why not try this? Invite him to join Worthy Boards as a non-believer. Then allow him to post his own questions about the Bible in the apologetics section, and allow the members here to try to answer them? He really has nothing to lose. He already has lost his faith, so the worst thing that would happen is he would continue to disbelieve. I doubt that any of the questions that kept popping into his mind are unique, so I wouldn't worry too much that it will cause anyone here to suddenly become a non-believer.

Excellent suggestion!

[anti-hillbilly]

How can a true beleiver turn from God?

It was a number of things but at the heart of were two things, he was an innerrant, bible believer and he is honest to a fault. To put it in a nutshell he painted himself in a corner with the Bible. I could make a list of questions that kept popping into his mind as he read the bible over and over and over but I won't because at this forum there are a lot of "innerrantists" and I wouldn't want to cause anyone to stumble the way he did. I've always been a liberal Christian; I'm not a bible innerrancy person so these questions didn't "throw" me the way they did him. He started spending a lot of time at Jewish websites asking questions right before he totally deconverted. I think those Left Behind books started the initial "unraveling" and the Jewish forums just finished it for him. -- I've prayed and tried to get him to attend my church [Prebysterian] and he won't do it. I think he's mad because he feels like he's been somehow "tricked". I told him I thought he was mad at God and he said he's not mad at God cause there isn't a God to be mad at; that people created God. I've just dropped it since then and thought it might be better to give him some time to "chill out" and regroup. I did ask him to keep his newfound atheism to himself and not be spouting off to the kids about it and he has, so far, done that for me.

He's not dead yet so it's never too late.

All prayers would be appreciated.

Anti-Hillbilly, as you know, I am a Bible literalist. I would be more than happy to attempt to answer the questions your husband has in relation to the scriptures. I have read the Bible through more than a dozen times, and have found that the so-called errors are not errors at all, but misunderstandings. I would hate for your husband to lose his place in heaven because he simply misunderstood something in the Bible and thought it was a mistake.

Why not try this? Invite him to join Worthy Boards as a non-believer. Then allow him to post his own questions about the Bible in the apologetics section, and allow the members here to try to answer them? He really has nothing to lose. He already has lost his faith, so the worst thing that would happen is he would continue to disbelieve. I doubt that any of the questions that kept popping into his mind are unique, so I wouldn't worry too much that it will cause anyone here to suddenly become a non-believer.

Thank you Butero. I think that is a good suggestion but I don't know if he would. He used to post at a couple of Christian websites when he was still a believer. He got very frustrated when he was "booted" off of one board just for asking a few things and was accused of being an atheist posing as a believer at another [ he wasn't at that time, he was just trying to get satisfactory answers ].

I have to approach this delicately though, I feel like I need to give him some time. If he came on here now I'm afraid he'd just cause trouble and be asked to leave. I will keep it in mind though and if the right time presents itself (God willing) I'll bring it up. -- It means a lot to me that you would offer since you and I don't often agree on things.

I think my minister could do wonders for him; he went to college in Kentucky and was ordained in Knoxville Tenn. so they have that "southern thing" in common and I think he'd be able to relate pretty well, coming from a similar background and all. My husband has met him and likes him very much but by the time my husband figured out that Prebysterians aren't hellbound in a handbasket he'd already become a non-believer.

[anti-hillbilly]

How can a true beleiver turn from God?

It was a number of things but at the heart of were two things, he was an innerrant, bible believer and he is honest to a fault. To put it in a nutshell he painted himself in a corner with the Bible. I could make a list of questions that kept popping into his mind as he read the bible over and over and over but I won't because at this forum there are a lot of "innerrantists" and I wouldn't want to cause anyone to stumble the way he did. I've always been a liberal Christian; I'm not a bible innerrancy person so these questions didn't "throw" me the way they did him. He started spending a lot of time at Jewish websites asking questions right before he totally deconverted. I think those Left Behind books started the initial "unraveling" and the Jewish forums just finished it for him. -- I've prayed and tried to get him to attend my church [Prebysterian] and he won't do it. I think he's mad because he feels like he's been somehow "tricked". I told him I thought he was mad at God and he said he's not mad at God cause there isn't a God to be mad at; that people created God. I've just dropped it since then and thought it might be better to give him some time to "chill out" and regroup. I did ask him to keep his newfound atheism to himself and not be spouting off to the kids about it and he has, so far, done that for me.

He's not dead yet so it's never too late.

All prayers would be appreciated.

Anti-Hillbilly, as you know, I am a Bible literalist. I would be more than happy to attempt to answer the questions your husband has in relation to the scriptures. I have read the Bible through more than a dozen times, and have found that the so-called errors are not errors at all, but misunderstandings. I would hate for your husband to lose his place in heaven because he simply misunderstood something in the Bible and thought it was a mistake.

Why not try this? Invite him to join Worthy Boards as a non-believer. Then allow him to post his own questions about the Bible in the apologetics section, and allow the members here to try to answer them? He really has nothing to lose. He already has lost his faith, so the worst thing that would happen is he would continue to disbelieve. I doubt that any of the questions that kept popping into his mind are unique, so I wouldn't worry too much that it will cause anyone here to suddenly become a non-believer.

Thank you Butero. I think that is a good suggestion but I don't know if he would. He used to post at a couple of Christian websites when he was still a believer. He got very frustrated when he was "booted" off of one board just for asking a few things and was accused of being an atheist posing as a believer at another [ he wasn't at that time, he was just trying to get satisfactory answers ].

I have to approach this delicately though, I feel like I need to give him some time. If he came on here now I'm afraid he'd just cause trouble and be asked to leave. I will keep it in mind though and if the right time presents itself (God willing) I'll bring it up. -- It means a lot to me that you would offer since you and I don't often agree on things.

I think my minister could do wonders for him; he went to college in Kentucky and was ordained in Knoxville Tenn. so they have that "southern thing" in common and I think he'd be able to relate pretty well, coming from a similar background and all. My husband has met him and likes him very much but by the time my husband figured out that Prebysterians aren't hellbound in a handbasket he'd already become a non-believer.

OK Anti-Hillbilly. You know his condition better than I do. One thing you mentioned however is that your husband was booted off one of the boards for asking questions, that he was accused of being an atheist. Here he wouldn't have to pretend to be a Christian. Atheists are welcome to post in the outer court area.

By the way, how long ago was it that your husband decided he was an atheist? I could be wrong, but I would imagine that your husband likely heard someone attacking the Bible, and he began to listen to what they were saying. Over time, those seeds of doubt took root. If a person doesn't have a strong understanding of the Bible, things often appear to be contradictory, when in reality they are not. I would not give up on your husband, because I believe if he could be persuaded to become an unbeliever, there is a good chance he can be brought back to the Lord if his objections can be answered to his satisfaction. I don't claim I can do that, but with the help of the Lord, and the many good folks here at WB, I would sure be willing to give it a try.

It's been less than a year. He wasn't listening to non-believers or atheists; he'd have thought that was "satanic" [he thought Satan was hiding behind every rock and tree ready to pounce at any moment], our now 14 yr old was asking some blunt questions when he was in a fundamentalist Christian kindergarden; he's always asked pointed questions; maybe that had something to do with it because this didn't just happen overnight even though it is still a shock. -- No, it had to do with the bible (the OT in particular) and then he wanted to know how we got the bible and he started reading about Christian history (which was pretty bloody) and how the Bible was cannonized etc.; how dispensationalism came about in the 1800s etc. He thought that the NT was written, "on the scene" and when he found out it wasn't he was very quiet for several days. I thought everybody knew that the bible wasn't written or canonized until decades and centuries later...respectively so that's no "big deal" to me although I guess for him it's was like having a rug pulled out from under you.

Do you think I should stop my 14 yr old from reading the OT? For years I would only let him read a Children's Bible version of the OT but now that he's gotten older he's reading the real thing and starting to zero in on some bizarre things in there. He was asking me a lot of X-rated questions relating to those scriptures one day and I don't know if he should be reading it at all especially with what has happened with my husband.

[anti-hillbilly]

There really aren't a lot of things I can think of in the Bible that should generate "x-rated" questions.

That's what I used to think too LOL, but he found some [must be the age, puberty and all]. But these questions really belong on another thread on another day. I gotta start supper now.

Have a good one!

[Scarletprayers]

There really aren't a lot of things I can think of in the Bible that should generate "x-rated" questions.

That's what I used to think too LOL, but he found some [must be the age, puberty and all]. But these questions really belong on another thread on another day. I gotta start supper now.

Have a good one!

Lets see Lot & his daughters, Song of Solomon, David's daughter, David and Bathsheba......just to name a few, I could see where he would have some.... ahhhh interesting questions. He also needs to be aware of the history and culture of the times, these things were written.

[Scarletprayers]

There really aren't a lot of things I can think of in the Bible that should generate "x-rated" questions.

That's what I used to think too LOL, but he found some [must be the age, puberty and all]. But these questions really belong on another thread on another day. I gotta start supper now.

Have a good one!

Lets see Lot & his daughters, Song of Solomon, David's daughter, David and Bathsheba......just to name a few, I could see where he would have some.... ahhhh interesting questions. He also needs to be aware of the history and culture of the times, these things were written.

Agreed Silentprayer. I just have trouble believing they would be serious questions. That is why I asked if they are juvenile humor or serious questions. I can think of ways of asking about these stories without it becoming x-rated.

When my oldest son was 14, he did NOT ask childish questions, so I understand what a-h is talking about! There were times I wished the floor would open up and swallow me. However by his bringing these questions up and me answering them, in the context of the history and cultures of the times, I could teach him something of history, of other cultures and most importantly their context with Biblical history.

[anti-hillbilly]

Okay, his questions are serious for the most part; though he gets embarrassed sometimes asking.

He's puzzled about all the "foreskin" talk in the OT. He asked why God was so obsessed with foreskins.

That's just one really "odd" one that comes to mind. Certainly not a question that had ever crossed my mine. Some of the other things have been mentioned by Silent Prayer. But there've been other questions that I can't remember right now.

[khalou]

You know, khalou, after all you have said here about you having known the Lord for 40 years, I just don't believe it. I have know Jesus Christ for 44 years, and I have had a growing relationship, not without trials, but all with Him and His sustaining. When you are truly His, you grow up in Him. When you allow doubt, and bitterness and anger to fester, you tend to become limp and ineffective and even dry up spiritually. You walk in disobedience, and God takes His hand off you.

Why have you not grown? Is it because you have allowed doubt to steal the truth you had? Have you allowed bitterness to poison your sweetness with Jesus? Or did you merely have a mental assent to Christ, mistakenly believing you were a believer?

Anyone who says they were a Christian but aren't now---was never a truly committed believer. They have NEVER tasted of the sweetness of the Lord, for they would NEVER have abandoned Him. Once you know Jesus personally, you cannot deny Him.

It wasn't doubt that led me to believe that Christianity isn't healthy. It was absolute faith in it. Absolute faith in Christianity is not good for human beings mentally, spiritually, or emotionally. The only way it doesn't negatively effect a person is if they have a wishy-washy faith that allows them to be "reasonable" about it and pick and choose what they will take seriously.

I haven't seen any evidence on this board that Faith in Christ isn't what each of you have decided it is according to your own sensibilities. I predict you will all be Christians for the rest of your lives as a result. After all, Christianity is easy when it's on your own terms.

I couldn't just halfway live that life- not if I truly believed it was the truth. Anything less than 100% commitment might as well be called Christianity Lite.

k

[khalou]

Grace to you,

Yours.

Bless you Khalou. I am just passing along what I have received to be the Truth from Gods very Word. It's not my Truth but the Truth of God Himself which He has revealed in Christ Jesus. In these last days.

The Mystery of God revealed.

Ps