Do You Believe in "Once Saved, Always Saved"

[dgolvach]

"We will sin everyday, but where is my heart in this? Do I repent or just brush it off?"

If you repent today, you are fine. If tommorow you brush it off, you have just taken the down swing of the Yo Yo. Next Saturday you repent, right back up the string you go.

I can biblically support that smoking is a sin. Do all smokers who don't quit go to hell?

Dan

[TomPJr]

"We will sin everyday, but where is my heart in this? Do I repent or just brush it off?"

If you repent today, you are fine. If tommorow you brush it off, you have just taken the down swing of the Yo Yo. Next Saturday you repent, right back up the string you go.

I can biblically support that smoking is a sin. Do all smokers who don't quit go to hell?

Dan

Any unrepented of sin will take us to hell.

Here are the two examples to which I am speaking -

#1 - The repenter

Luke 17:3-4 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.

#2 - The non-repenter

Matthew 18:15-17 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

You will see two different hearts here even thoughboth have sinned. There are times we will repeat the same sins over and over, but am I working at overcoming them or am I like #2 and don't want to hear it because I want to hold onto that sin and/or don't believe that it is sin?

God will accept #1 because he has the heart of trying while #2 in whatever sin he is holding onto is not trying.

There are things in our lives we will be working on overcoming till the day we die, but the sin that will take us to hell is the one I chose not to overcome.

I think a lot of people have the wrong understanding on with being righteous before God is. It is not being without sin. No man on this earth will ever be without sin. I knew of a very strong teacher in the church that was in for 40 years. They died at the age of 81 and even at that age they were still making confessions of sins. This is what makes us righteous before God -

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Our righteousness is measured by what we do in this life in obeying the Gospel of Christ. When I learn of what sin is and repent of it I am doing righteousness. The Pharasies were putting on an outward show of being religeous. When I quit lying and learn to be more truthful I am doing righteousness. When I obstain from fornication I am doing righteousness. When I confess my sins I am doing righteousness.

1 John 5:16-17 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

The sin unto death is the one I choose not to repent of. Not the one I fall into more than once, but one I choose not to give up. This is the sin that will even take a Christian to hell.

I agree with you very much so on your posts on this subject...

It is a very fine line though...we must be very carefull and examine ourselves when we fall into the same sin over and over, lest we Grieve away the Holy Spirit, by which we get conviction to repent. If we become too numb by procrastinating repentence, or by ignoring the Holy spirit, we can harden our hearts and deafen our ears so that we will no longer hear the Holy Spirit convicting us, and we will lose the motivation to repent of those particular sins, and therefore forfiet our salvation because we became comfortable in our cherrished sins. That ignoring the Holy Spirit, or denying his correction, can become the unpardinable sin, because you can get to the point where you no longer hear his voice, or just don't have the will to listen, and so those sins that the Holy Spirit is trying to convict you of are never confessed or repented of.

[dgolvach]

What about the smokers? I will light a cigar maybe once or twice a year. Does this mean I have 6 months to repent in between smokes? I plan on doing it again.

Its simple. Does our salvation hinge on Christ or our ability to overcome every sin including the small ones.

Dan

[TomPJr]

What about the smokers? I will light a cigar maybe once or twice a year. Does this mean I have 6 months to repent in between smokes? I plan on doing it again.

Its simple. Does our salvation hinge on Christ or our ability to overcome every sin including the small ones.

Dan

It's simple...

If you are convicted that smoking is a sin, then you need to repent.

If you do it willfully and do not repent (or sincerely try to repent) before you die, it will remove your salvation.

on the other hand, a person might not have grown that far in truth, and smoking might not be counted as sin to them. If the Holy Spirit is not convicting a person of it, then it is not sin to them.

We need to be carefull though, not to confuse conviction by the Holy Spirit with our own ideas.

It's all about your attitude.

[TomPJr]

I agree with you very much so on your posts on this subject...

It is a very fine line though...we must be very carefull and examine ourselves when we fall into the same sin over and over, lest we Grieve away the Holy Spirit, by which we get conviction to repent. If we become too numb by procrastinating repentence, or by ignoring the Holy spirit, we can harden our hearts and deafen our ears so that we will no longer hear the Holy Spirit convicting us, and we will lose the motivation to repent of those particular sins, and therefore forfiet our salvation because we became comfortable in our cherrished sins. That ignoring the Holy Spirit, or denying his correction, can become the unpardinable sin, because you can get to the point where you no longer hear his voice, or just don't have the will to listen, and so those sins that the Holy Spirit is trying to convict you of are never confessed or repented of.

I agree Tom. That is why I stated that God searches the heart.

1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

I can shipwreck my conscience by not listening to it to where it becomes numb.

By the way, I like your picture. You have a very nice looking family.

Thanks...I love them very much!

[EricH]

If you are convicted that smoking is a sin, then you need to repent.

If you do it willfully and do not repent (or sincerely try to repent) before you die, it will remove your salvation.

on the other hand, a person might not have grown that far in truth, and smoking might not be counted as sin to them. If the Holy Spirit is not convicting a person of it, then it is not sin to them.

We need to be carefull though, not to confuse conviction by the Holy Spirit with our own ideas.

It's all about your attitude.

I am particularlly interested in the scriptures that prescribe what you are saying:

1. That sin is personal (i.e. it depends if the HS convicts us of it to make it sin)

2. That any sin not repented of before death leads to a loss in salvation

Cardcaptor, are you in agreement with this?

[TomPJr]

If you are convicted that smoking is a sin, then you need to repent.

If you do it willfully and do not repent (or sincerely try to repent) before you die, it will remove your salvation.

on the other hand, a person might not have grown that far in truth, and smoking might not be counted as sin to them. If the Holy Spirit is not convicting a person of it, then it is not sin to them.

We need to be carefull though, not to confuse conviction by the Holy Spirit with our own ideas.

It's all about your attitude.

I am particularlly interested in the scriptures that prescribe what you are saying:

1. That sin is personal (i.e. it depends if the HS convicts us of it to make it sin)

2. That any sin not repented of before death leads to a loss in salvation

Cardcaptor, are you in agreement with this?

Act 17:30 And(3767, 3303) the3588 times5550 of this ignorance52 God2316 winked5237 at; but now3569 commandeth3853 all3956 men444 every where3837 to repent:3340

This is speaking of ignorance to the fact that they are sinning...

After the HOly Spirit convicts you of sin, and you continue to do it, then you are no longer in ignorance.

[EricH]

If you are convicted that smoking is a sin, then you need to repent.

If you do it willfully and do not repent (or sincerely try to repent) before you die, it will remove your salvation.

on the other hand, a person might not have grown that far in truth, and smoking might not be counted as sin to them. If the Holy Spirit is not convicting a person of it, then it is not sin to them.

We need to be carefull though, not to confuse conviction by the Holy Spirit with our own ideas.

It's all about your attitude.

I am particularlly interested in the scriptures that prescribe what you are saying:

1. That sin is personal (i.e. it depends if the HS convicts us of it to make it sin)

2. That any sin not repented of before death leads to a loss in salvation

Cardcaptor, are you in agreement with this?

Act 17:30 And(3767, 3303) the3588 times5550 of this ignorance52 God2316 winked5237 at; but now3569 commandeth3853 all3956 men444 every where3837 to repent:3340

This is speaking of ignorance to the fact that they are sinning...

After the HOly Spirit convicts you of sin, and you continue to do it, then you are no longer in ignorance.

As I look at Acts 17, it does not appear to be addressing personal sin in the life of the believing Athenians. The passage you selected is a portion of Paul's sermon to the unbelieving Athenian philosophers at the Areopagus in Athens. Paul looked around and noticed a predominance of altars to various gods. He observed one with the inscription:

"TO AN UNKNOWN GOD" (Acts 17:23)

Paul uses this altar as a teaching platform to instruct them as to the nature of the true God. Paul makes the following argument:

1. They worshipped this unknown God in ignorance of the true God (Acts 17:23b)

2. The true God cannot be quantified by anything made with human hands since:

The God who made the world and everything in it-- He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands.

Acts 17:24 HCSB

3. God made all people and determined their appointed times and national boundaries. (Acts 17:26)

4. God places people at specific times and places in order that they would have the best chance of finding Him (Acts 17:27-28)

5. By looking at ourselves we should be able to see that God is not made from stone, silver, or gold, because we are His offspring and are not made form these things (Acts 17:29) (here Paul appeals to one of their own poets who claimed we are the Offspring of God)

6. This period of ignorance that allowed the Athenians to worship an "unknown God" is now over. God is now openly declaring the Gospel to them, so they need to hear it and repent. That is because if they do not, a time of judgement is coming (Acts 17:29-31).

This passage does not address someone who has know God and been saved and has committed sin. It is addressing those who worshipped idols in ignorance. It says that God has reached into their ignorance and made them an offer to know Him personally. The text does not say that God ignored their ignorance in the past by saving them (because they did not know). It says that He has ignored their ignorance by withholding judgement until they received the true Gospel message so they could worship the true God. It is a statement about how God treats unbelievers. Not how God deals with believers in sin

I just don't see how this proves your point. To me this is a great example of Paul's contextualizing the Gospel to a culture

[dgolvach]

Can we post this up where all the smokers on the board can see?

Is nicorest a sin as well?

Dan

[TomPJr]

If you are convicted that smoking is a sin, then you need to repent.

If you do it willfully and do not repent (or sincerely try to repent) before you die, it will remove your salvation.

on the other hand, a person might not have grown that far in truth, and smoking might not be counted as sin to them. If the Holy Spirit is not convicting a person of it, then it is not sin to them.

We need to be carefull though, not to confuse conviction by the Holy Spirit with our own ideas.

It's all about your attitude.

I am particularlly interested in the scriptures that prescribe what you are saying:

1. That sin is personal (i.e. it depends if the HS convicts us of it to make it sin)

2. That any sin not repented of before death leads to a loss in salvation

Cardcaptor, are you in agreement with this?

Act 17:30 And(3767, 3303) the3588 times5550 of this ignorance52 God2316 winked5237 at; but now3569 commandeth3853 all3956 men444 every where3837 to repent:3340

This is speaking of ignorance to the fact that they are sinning...

After the HOly Spirit convicts you of sin, and you continue to do it, then you are no longer in ignorance.

As I look at Acts 17, it does not appear to be addressing personal sin in the life of the believing Athenians. The passage you selected is a portion of Paul's sermon to the unbelieving Athenian philosophers at the Areopagus in Athens. Paul looked around and noticed a predominance of altars to various gods. He observed one with the inscription:

"TO AN UNKNOWN GOD" (Acts 17:23)

Paul uses this altar as a teaching platform to instruct them as to the nature of the true God. Paul makes the following argument:

1. They worshipped this unknown God in ignorance of the true God (Acts 17:23b)

2. The true God cannot be quantified by anything made with human hands since:

The God who made the world and everything in it-- He is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands.

Acts 17:24 HCSB

3. God made all people and determined their appointed times and national boundaries. (Acts 17:26)

4. God places people at specific times and places in order that they would have the best chance of finding Him (Acts 17:27-28)

5. By looking at ourselves we should be able to see that God is not made from stone, silver, or gold, because we are His offspring and are not made form these things (Acts 17:29) (here Paul appeals to one of their own poets who claimed we are the Offspring of God)

6. This period of ignorance that allowed the Athenians to worship an "unknown God" is now over. God is now openly declaring the Gospel to them, so they need to hear it and repent. That is because if they do not, a time of judgement is coming (Acts 17:29-31).

This passage does not address someone who has know God and been saved and has committed sin. It is addressing those who worshipped idols in ignorance. It says that God has reached into their ignorance and made them an offer to know Him personally. The text does not say that God ignored their ignorance in the past by saving them (because they did not know). It says that He has ignored their ignorance by withholding judgement until they received the true Gospel message so they could worship the true God. It is a statement about how God treats unbelievers. Not how God deals with believers in sin

I just don't see how this proves your point. To me this is a great example of Paul's contextualizing the Gospel to a culture

You stated a lot of true stuff....

I believe that it applies to us also...you said "6. This period of ignorance that allowed the Athenians to worship an "unknown God" is now over. God is now openly declaring the Gospel to them, so they need to hear it and repent. That is because if they do not, a time of judgement is coming (Acts 17:29-31).

That is axactly my point to Christians who become aware of there sins. (They are now obligated to repent) God is merciful, but sooner or later the time of probation will close and we will face judgement if we don't repent.

Remember Eric, that not all Christians know everything...We are on a path with God, and new truths are imparted to us along the journey. I don't believe that if all our sin was shown to us at one time that we could bear it, so we are shown a little at a time. Some Christians do things that God doesn't want us to do and they don't realize it. But once they are brought into the light and are convicted about it then they are responsible to repent.

I will get more scripture for you....I was busy and short for time before.

Tom