witnessing...

[Guest yod]

Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

flinthead huh???

well I guess the shoe fits....

Yeah Idolsmasher that is a particularly good verse because Paul is speaking SPECIFICALLY about the jews there.

So, yes, she should get all the information she needs so the transformation is possible when she is convinced...by seeing truth in action.

Shalom ya'll !

[Guest idolsmasher]

Well, ...ultimately they must confess Christ isn't that right? How can they call on Him in whom they have not believed if you don't tell them that the steps they need to take to have what you have (sample) is to accept Christ. I mean, somebody has to tell them eventually, right? The sample without the witness isn't going to get them saved. Maybe in some rare instances they might cry out to the Lord on their own, but most need to be led to receive the Lord, and to do that they have to have at least faith as a grain of mustard seed in Christ. If you give them a sample without a witness, they might think you're a Buddhist or a moralistic atheist or something.

Yeah Idolsmasher that is a particularly good verse because Paul is speaking SPECIFICALLY about the jews there.

You seem to think Yod that almost whenever Paul spoke he was only speaking specifically about the Jews.

Perhaps He was speaking to a crowd of Jews, but the words don't seem limited to the miniscule in number speck of humanity called Jews. Consider the preceeding verses:

Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I think your theology got the better of you there Yod!

As for the flint head remark, well, I thought it was kinda funny while still conveying the sought after imagery of hard heads or persons whose mentality is rigid and unbending, even when presented with convincing facts. That is however just my opinion. You'll be happy to know that I had thought of a different word to use but chose to omit it and opted for the less inflammatory and somewhat colorful "flint heads" remark. BTW, having a flint head is not always a bad thing. There are times when it may be good not to be flexible, but I don't think that interpreting Bible prophecy is one of them.

[Guest yod]

As for the flint head remark, well, I thought it was kinda funny while still conveying the sought after imagery of hard heads or persons whose mentality is rigid and unbending,

I was not offended in the least...it was good belly laugh.

Honestly? I've come to see you as a brother instead of an enemy. You make me crazy sometimes because you are so wrong....but you can't help it if you've been decieved by worldly thinking. I'm trying to help you through this time in your life....someday you'll thank me

You seem to think Yod that almost whenever Paul spoke he was only speaking specifically about the Jews.

Moi? LOL

Seriously man...read the whole chapter in it's context and tell me he's not speaking specifically of the jew. Let me help you, brother...

Romans 10

1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them (jews) is for their salvation.

2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),

7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."

8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

(this verse you bring up is only pointing out that we are all saved the same way...but it doesn't change the fact that he is specifically speaking about the salvation of the jews in this passage. He's telling the gentiles that THEY should preach the good news to the jews SPECIFICALLY in these next few verses)

14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, " HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"

16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"

17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have;

"THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH,

AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."

19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says,

"I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION,

BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU."

20 And Isaiah is very bold and says,

"I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME,

I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME."

21 But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

I am quite sure even you will agree that the first and last verse in Romans 10 is speaking of the jews, right?

I rest my case for the interpretation given in the previous post. This is specifically speaking of the need for jewish evanglism.

[Guest idolsmasher]

Like I said, he may have been speaking to a bunch of Jews, but the verses I quoted have a more universal and non exclusive meaning and are not specifically about Jews only, but of course they do apply to Jews or Paul would have used the Torah instead. Just trying to clarify that point!

[endure4salvation]

The Bible has many, many OT prophecies concerning the Messiah. What I would suggest doing is getting a copy of the Jewish Scriptures, WITHOUT the NT (I have a Jewish Publishing Society version that you can get at Borders or Barnes & Noble for about $15 or $20) and study prophecy.

You can show how all over you see a promise made by God to bring forth the messiah. God promised Abraham that one would come through him that would bless ALL NATIONS. Then through Isaac, Jacob, and the tribe of Judah. Then through David, and so on and so forth. Show how there were a few Gentiles mixed in with the geanology of Jesus (like Rahab and Ruth is it?) and then indicate according to Daniel 9:24-27 that the exact time that the Messiah was to come was 483 years after the order was given to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem. All of the records of genaology were destroyed when the temple was destroyed in AD 70, so now it is impossible to see for certain if the "messiah" that will come was a descendant of Abraham and David.

I would greatly suggest doing a study on this subject more before you witness to your Jewish friend, though.