Salvation - a Question for Christians

[Seren]

Question "what proof do you have that the promise of Salvation is yours?"

My dramatically converted boyfriend says that Salvation has not taken place unless re-birth,

and a transformation of character from the old nature to the new nature has

taken place, but he still has some elements of the old nature in him.

I don't doubt that he is saved, and that some of his sins, alcoholism and

smoking, did disappear overnight (Praise God), but how do you explain remaining

sins, such as violent temper, which I have suffered, but am currently relieved

from? Is the answer that some sins take a while to work out of our lives

through analysis and works of Grace, whilst others go immediately?

Do we need more than one day to adjust to the reformed person's new character,

if we are not used to it, as seeing is believeing.

He withdrew his offer of marriage, the day after his temper left, because I was

not yet used to the new him, as it had taken him three months to vacate after a

visit without a fit of rage. This was a milestone indeed, but has already been

broken, the only thing I was afraid of, in an otherwise loving courtship.

Also how can you assess whether someone else has recieved Salvation, if there is

no great transition of character? For example someone who has little obvious or

subtle sins. My friend believes that God choses us and it is NOT a decision on

our part, to follow Christ, and all the usual Gospel message: recognise our sin,

repent of it, accept that Jesus died in our place, that we might go to Heaven

and ask God into our lives, try to follow Him from our learning from His word,

with the help of the Holy Sprit to guide us, and pray etc etc....

My boyfriend doubts my simple faith is Salvation -

that's news to me after 30 years of knowing God in my life, but I'm willing to learn

more still.

[Floatingaxe]

My friend believes that God choses us and it is NOT a decision on

our part, to follow Christ

That is a major cop-out. We are called to repent by decision, turn away from our sin--renounce it. Do a 180 degree turn away from it and to our Lord Jesus Christ.

When your boyfriend sins, does he have godly sorrow? Does he repent? Does he turn from it?

Sounds like ineffective faith, like erroneous thinking, like an unappreciative child, like pride.

[Nevin]

We were known by God before birth yes Jermiah 1:5 ""Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart" but the choice is till with us. We are free moral agents. This is logical because if we had no choice then the whole world would have been saved as would have been Gods desire. Coming to your boyfriend - the way i see it is that some people change immediately while others change bit by bit - your boyfriend will never be the finished product and that will happen only when we are with the Lord Jesus then we become perfected in Him but while on the earth we will remain imperfect. As a new Creation your boyfriend will have to learn to "spiritually crawl and then walk and then run but this takes time of think of a new born baby - the baby is born into a foreign world but as to learn to adapt to its new surroundings the same with your boyfriend - he has to learn to addapt to his new lifestyle because Christianity is not a religon but a lifestyle and to be a true disciple one has to be disciplined. I pray that he makes this walk and completes it and finds that some of his behaviour needs to be altered to adapt to his new found status.

[crab3]

The way your story sounds, it hits me like you are thinking at some point in our lives we stop sinning, this just isn't the case. Look at Paul in Romans saying that all sin and come short of the glory of God, he's talking about everyone, Jews and Gents alike. It is a change of heart, eventually the anger will die away, mine did, it takes time really. Its the fervency with which he despises the old self, and the fervency with which he loves the new creature he has become, because of Jesus. Its not that he isn't saved, its just that he has to pray about some things more often than others.

I'd recommend listening to this sermon at www.mhbcmi.org

Go over to the listen button, and find the sermons, you can dowload mp3's of them for free, look for the one titled, 'Whats it to you,' I learned a lot from it, there is a lot in there about accepting yourself......

peace

crabs><>

[EricH]

The proof we have is God's promise that those who come to Him by having faith in Jesus will be saved. Whether He chose us before hand or not doesn't really matter. No one who comes to Jesus asking for new life on Jesus' terms will be refused

[nanasimmons]

I was just listening to a messagage on this subject.In the Corinthians Church Paul starts out by talking about their faith and grace in Christ acknowledging they are christians.Then he points out some of their fleshly problems. Some of them were pretty bad and would cause us to think that they may not be saved at all.

The message went on to say that you could tell a tree by there fruit, on an appletree you will get apples..how many apples would you have to see to be able to know it is an apple tree?? The obviously would conclude..ONE.

In John 15:1,2 Jesus talks about pruning off the unfruitful,usless branches so there will be more fruit .The pruning is something that He does.

[Kabowd]

There's a difference between justification and sanctification. Salvation is both something that instantly changes our relationship with God eternally (our identity) and something that gradually changes our relationship with others (characteristics/behavior etc). It's both instantaneous and a process. What you have to remember is that until Christ returns, our bodies (flesh and earthly existence) have yet to be fully redeemed. This is why we still experience consequences of the fall (sin) with things like sickness, because our bodies have yet to be redeemed. Likewise, because we are still in this world, we experience an ongoing struggle between the principalities of this world (satan/darkness) and the Spirit that is within us (Light/The Holy Spirit). Scripture teaches that sin, if it is not rejected or kept under control, will get progressively worse until it destroys us (like a cancer).

A couple of ways we can have "proof" of salvation:

1. Fruit - Fruit/works/deeds are not evidence to God that we are saved (He already knows those who are His), fruit/works/deeds are our evidence to the world and ourselves that we are His. An apple on a limb signifies that this is an apple tree. When we show signs of positive change, when we become more like Christ, this signifies that we are connected to the Vine (Christ).

2. Discipline - Scripture teaches (Hebrews 12) that God disciplines His children because He loves them. This fact automatically implies that we will disobey. Disobedience obviously must not mean we aren't saved, it just means we are in need of correction. God brings this to His children in various ways, but one way in particular is through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. He reveals our sin and our need to repent. If there is no conviction, no brokenness over sin, no desire to repent ...then there is reason to question salvation.