Christ's Body -

[Catsmeow]

I have an honest question. I'm not being combative or anything. It's an honest question.

Look...I was born and raised Catholic. I've drunk from the cup, which contained a rather fragrant, mildly sweet wine served by the priest at mass.

I've also drunk grape juice at other masses.

I've also participated in Holy Communion at non-Catholic services.

In all cases, the wine tasted like wine; the grape juice tasted like grape juice. It neither looked like nor tasted like blood, which has a salty taste, if you ever tasted your own blood. It has a saline taste to it.

Also, the "bread" is often represented as either a light wafer, (*In Catholic communion), or typically a small cracker or piece of unleavened bread in Non-Catholic services.

In both cases, it tasted like a wafer or cracker. It didn't taste like meat or human flesh.

I hate to play dumb here...but if the elements are mystically transformed into blood and flesh, why don't they change physically in taste and texture?

It's a honest question. If they actually "changed" before our eyes, I'm sure you'd make believers out of people. All anyone ever sees is grape juice and wafers.

[refugepsa91]

I have an honest question. I'm not being combative or anything. It's an honest question.

Look...I was born and raised Catholic. I've drunk from the cup, which contained a rather fragrant, mildly sweet wine served by the priest at mass.

I've also drunk grape juice at other masses.

I've also participated in Holy Communion at non-Catholic services.

In all cases, the wine tasted like wine; the grape juice tasted like grape juice. It neither looked like nor tasted like blood, which has a salty taste, if you ever tasted your own blood. It has a saline taste to it.

Also, the "bread" is often represented as either a light wafer, (*In Catholic communion), or typically a small cracker or piece of unleavened bread in Non-Catholic services.

In both cases, it tasted like a wafer or cracker. It didn't taste like meat or human flesh.

I hate to play dumb here...but if the elements are mystically transformed into blood and flesh, why don't they change physically in taste and texture?

It's a honest question. If they actually "changed" before our eyes, I'm sure you'd make believers out of people. All anyone ever sees is grape juice and wafers.

I'm so glad you asked this...I wanted to but didn't have enough courage!!!

You brave girl

Love and Blessings,

Angel H.

[jesusislord]

Well it all boils down to this ONE FACT, If you have not repented of your sins and received Christ as your saviour ,hence being born again then you are lost and you will one day stand before Jesus Christ who will judge the quick and the dead and you will hear these words, depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels I never knew you

That is the ONE FACT that no one will escape....Because all will one day stand before this judge.

All of the man made religions and their doctrines of devils will not mean a thing on that day.

THE ONLY THING THAT WILL MATTER IS IF YOU HAVE REPENTED OF YOUR SINS TO GOD TRUSTING IN HIS SON AND ONLY HIS SON JESUS CHRIST FOR FORGIVENESS.

" JESUS ANSWERED HIM SAYING YE MUST BE BORN AGAIN TO ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD"

No church will save you.

No works will save you.

NOTHING BUT THE SHED BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST SAVES.

WATER CANNOT SAVE YOU....

NOTHING BUT THE BLOOD WASHES AWAY THOSE CRIMSON STAINS.

GRACE , NOT WORKS....

THE GRACE OF GOD.

NOT YOUR CHURCH.

GRACE IT IS ALL GRACE.

SATAN HAS BEEN TRYING TO ROB FROM THE CROSS SINCE JESUS LAID DOWN HIS LIFE FOR SINNERS. HE IS STILL HARD AT WORK.

When God saves your soul you will know it, because something happens .

There is a change in us. God's word tells us in Ezek. we are given a new heart and His spirit He puts within us.

We are NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST JESUS....NEW MEANS NEW.

OLD THINGS ARE PASSED AWAY.

RCC CANT SAVE YOU , NOTHING BUT THE SHED BLOOD OF THE LAMB CAN WASH AWAY THOSE FILTHY STAINS .....THOSE FILTHY STAINS ARE SIN.

COME NOW AND LET US REASON TOGETHER SAITH THE LORD, THOUGH YOUR SINS BE AS SCARLET THEY SHALL BE WHITE AS SNOW, THOUGH THEY BE RED LIKE CRIMSON THEY SHALL BE WHITE AS WOOL.......

ONLY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST CAN WASH US AND MAKE US WHITE AS SNOW...

I PRAY FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR OWN SOULS THAT YOU HAVE REPENTED TO A RIGHTOUES HOLY GOD AND RECEIVED INTO YOUR HEART HIS SON THE SACRFICE FOR YOUR SINS . ETENRITY IS A MIGHTY LONG TIME. I WOULD KNOW FOR SURE THAT I AM SAVED AND READY TO GO IF GOD WOULD CALL ME OUT INTO ETERNITY TODAY.

IF YOU ARE NEVER SURE ABOUT ANYTHING ELSE IN THIS WORLD , THIS ONE THING YOU HAD BETTER BE SURE OF....

ARE YOUR SINS UNDER THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST?

[Guest yod]

Are you aware that the Vatican had people killed for disagreement on this?

An entire Jewish village in Germany was rounded up, put in the synagogue, and burned because of a rumor than one person had spoken against this in the 11th century.

Is that "charity"? Can you understand why there would be strong opinions about this?

Want to provide some real documentation for this - so that I may read up on this event? Not being smart at all I would really like to know where you read this piece of history as I would like to see it in its context.

God bless you.

you really don't know the sordid history of murder in the name of the Eucharist? I am surprised!

It wasn't until 1215 AD that the 4th Lateran Council accepted the doctrine of transubstantiation as official dogma and this led to the torture and murder of thousands of jews.

In 1243 Berlin's entire Jewish commmunity was burned alive for allededly torturing a wafer.

April 26th 1343 the whole Jewish community of Germersheim Germany is burned at stake.

In Prague, in 1389, the Jewish community was collectively accused of attacking a monk carry a wafer. Large mobs surrounded the Jewish neighborhood and offered the choice of baptism or death. 3,000 jews were murdered.

In Berlin, 1510, 26 Jews were burned and 2 beheaded for "desecrating the host".

A charge of host desecration was reported as late as 1836 in Romania

Prager and Telushkin Pg 103. See also Cecil Roth "Host, Desecration of" Encyclopedia Judaica volum e8 cols 1040-1044

And by the way...this isn't even the tip of the iceberg with regards to the murder and persecution of jewish people by Catholics. We're only on the topic of transubstantiation! Do you want more examples of Catholic "charity"?

What documentation (out of curiosity) do you have that after the Ressurection of Christ this Old Law was practiced?

Well I can't name any Greek or Roman "church father" types as you have used mainly because I don't have much respect for anyone who teaches against what the Bible clearly says......but there were a few jews at meeting in Jerusalem by the names of James, Peter, Paul, Barnabus...ya know....small folk.....who ruled that gentiles should refrain from idols, fornication, things strangled, and from ingesting blood.

It's in Acts chapter 15. The Holy Bible.

[jesusislord]

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity

Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam [is] in thine own eye?

Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Mat 7:14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Mat 7:28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

Mat 7:29 For he taught them as [one] having authority, and not as the scribes

Rev 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Rev 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Where is your name written tonight?

[Guest yod]

I hate to play dumb here...but if the elements are mystically transformed into blood and flesh, why don't they change physically in taste and texture?

It's a honest question. If they actually "changed" before our eyes, I'm sure you'd make believers out of people. All anyone ever sees is grape juice and wafers

.

Yeah....and what is Jesus' DNA if this is His flesh and blood? Let's clone Him!

Good point Cats!

....the answer to your question is obvious for anyone with common sense

[Guest Angeledei]

Look...I was born and raised Catholic. I've drunk from the cup, which contained a rather fragrant, mildly sweet wine served by the priest at mass.

I've also drunk grape juice at other masses.

I've also participated in Holy Communion at non-Catholic services.

In all cases, the wine tasted like wine; the grape juice tasted like grape juice. It neither looked like nor tasted like blood, which has a salty taste, if you ever tasted your own blood. It has a saline taste to it.

Also, the "bread" is often represented as either a light wafer, (*In Catholic communion), or typically a small cracker or piece of unleavened bread in Non-Catholic services.

In both cases, it tasted like a wafer or cracker. It didn't taste like meat or human flesh.

I hate to play dumb here...but if the elements are mystically transformed into blood and flesh, why don't they change physically in taste and texture?

It's a honest question. If they actually "changed" before our eyes, I'm sure you'd make believers out of people. All anyone ever sees is grape juice and wafers.

Transubstantiation

The Roman Catholic Church through history approached her faith life with the clarification of language. That is, she translated the essentials of revealed faith into the vocabulary of living language.

To the revealed Word that there is "Father, Son and Holy Spirit" the Church labeled the belief "Trinity."

To the revealed Word that the "Son of God became man" the Church labeled the belief "Incarnation."

To the revealed Word that the "blood of Christ spilled on Calvary saved us" the Church labeled the belief "Redemption."

To the revealed Word that "my flesh is true food, my blood is true drink" the Church labeled the belief "Transubstantiation."

Transubstantiation reflects Roman Catholic faith in the literalness of the words of the Bible.

Jesus (omnipotent God) said: "This is my body; this is my blood." And again Jesus said: "I am the bread of life;" "My flesh is true food; my blood is true drink;" "He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood ...;" etc.

Roman Catholics take Jesus at His word: the bread is his body; the wine is his blood.

From the Apostles at the Last Supper until today, the bread and wine of Eucharist looks and feels and tastes like bread and wine in the eating and drinking.

Similar to all of God's Word, faith is essential. Faith in what? In the words of Jesus even though the bread does not look, feel, taste like flesh; even though the wine does not look, feel, taste like blood.

Medieval philosophers and theologians sought simply to label this simple biblical faith: Jesus said that bread is his body and wine is his blood even though it did not appear to change into visible flesh and blood.

Transubstantiation means the substance part of the bread and wine elements changes; but the accidental parts--sight, taste, smell, touch--do not. Catholics believe that since Jesus said it and He is God, he can do it. They believe! "Transubstantiation" merely labels it.

In everyday life, it is not at all uncommon to believe in things man cannot perceive by the senses: wind, electricity, love, peace, etc. All the more when Jesus says it.

From The Eucharist: The Lord's Supper

Now, before you go accusing me of "cutting and pasting" I need to say, that if I were to go ahead and answer that question flat out, I would say to you "God said it, and I believe it, and that's good enough for me" as the old saying goes LOL. But, I know I would be SHREDDED apart for saying it, so I found this article that is able to say, what I perhaps, can not.

Interesting to: Eucharistic Miracles

[Guest Angeledei]

Yeah....and what is Jesus' DNA if this is His flesh and blood? Let's clone Him!

Please show a little respect for Our Savior. Your comment is blaphemous and scandalous and it is completely offensive.

Will my questions be ignored?

May you go in CHrist's peace and may He have mercy on you for your comment.

[Catsmeow]

Angel: Don't expect the worst out of me. It was an honest question, which you've attempted to answer. I'm not accusing you of anything.

Transubstantiation means the substance part of the bread and wine elements changes; but the accidental parts--sight, taste, smell, touch--do not. Catholics believe that since Jesus said it and He is God, he can do it. They believe! "Transubstantiation" merely labels it.

The "substance" part would be the actual physical elements. That's the part that doesn't appear to change.

Look, God is Spirit. Jesus IS God. Jesus is Spirit. Hence, if you're saying that His Body and Blood in the Eucharist are His Spirit or essence, I'll buy that.

I think most believe that. It is His essence.... We are partaking of His Spirit. It's like an embrace, as we recall the sacrifice He made for us.

Now, to say that the grapejuice and wafers become blood and flesh ...seems illogical in every sense of the word. Jesus Christ dwells in the elements in a spiritual sense...that seems reasonable.

Jesus dwells within each believer as well. The Eucharist is a time of intimacy... to reflect His great sacrifice.

He wants us to do it in rememberance of Him.

He goes so far as to say whenever two or more are gathered, there He is in their midst. We don't see him physically but He's there in Spirit.

His presence is in the Eucharist. We do not see or taste a physical change in the elements. But a spiritual change may well occur...since God is Spirit.

I'm trying to find some way to reconcile these beliefs.

YOD: I've always respected you as a brother but your last comment was not only rude but out of character.

[ColleenLovesMischief]

You know I've been through 2 communion services today and in both cases it was done as a rememberance ceremony. The items represented Christs body and blood. It is a way to remember Him just like pictures bring you good memories of the dead. Instead of a picture we have a "supper" the Lord wants us to do. Trust me one service today was Charismatic, and the other was Methodist. Big difference..............same ceremony.