Divorce And The Bible.

[Smalcald]

i think where most churches fail is not necessarily in teaching about divorce as much as in not teaching about how to have a Godly marriage. i'm 42 years old, and although i have heard of preachers teaching on the subject of marriage, i have yet to be witness to such a teaching.

we are to fill our minds with that which is holy and pure. why are our churches in general so hesitant to teach their congregations about the qualities and virtues of being a Godly wife or Godly husband? why are they hesitant to teach about the proper role of intimacy in a marriage, considering that sexual sin is probably the leading cause of divorce among christians and non-christians alike?

I agree the start is in marriage preparation, not divorce prevention. The cause of most divorces started at the alter or before. Of course one of the reason's that you may not hear as much from the pulpit about this as you like is that so many of our pastors are themselves divorced.

The other issue is marriage itself. Not all Christians are called to be married, I think far too many feel pressured to marry, particularly women who see marriage as the defining role for themselves. Scripture in fact encourages single unmarried Christians in their walk with the Lord.

[Smalcald]

and for the record, since you keep dragging homosexuality into this thread, yes there is a difference. God doesn't hate the homosexual, He hates the ACT of homosexuality. if a person is staying in a homosexual relationship, they are continuing in their lifestyle.

God doesn't hate the divorcee (not even you!) and think that the person is an abomination. God hates the ACT of divorce. you are not continuing in a constant state of divorce. nor are you continuing in a state of adultry. when you repented of divorce, you were forgiven. prior to repenting of divorce, if you were shacking up it was adultry. if you were married prior to repentance it was adultry. if you have repented and turned your life over to Christ, God recognizes your CURRENT marriage and His commands regarding marital responsibility, including intimacy, apply to you and your wife.

according to the logic you're using, Abraham would be in hell, do you realize that? because he was married to his half sister. that's incest. it's a sin. but when Abraham dedicated his life to God, God no longer recognized sarah as abraham's sister, He recognized her as abraham's wife.

God keeps His word, anti-hillbilly. even His promise to forgive you, to love you, to bless you, and to let you inherit His kingdom.

Listen to yourself; everything you said is exactly the same thing a homosexual could (and some do) say. It's called bending the rules for me.

Incest is just nasty but I guess those rules got bent too. Do you think all of God's rule via the bible were meant to be bent or just the ones that apply to us?

Only when it comes to beer.

[Guest LadyC]

and for the record, since you keep dragging homosexuality into this thread, yes there is a difference. God doesn't hate the homosexual, He hates the ACT of homosexuality. if a person is staying in a homosexual relationship, they are continuing in their lifestyle.

God doesn't hate the divorcee (not even you!) and think that the person is an abomination. God hates the ACT of divorce. you are not continuing in a constant state of divorce. nor are you continuing in a state of adultry. when you repented of divorce, you were forgiven. prior to repenting of divorce, if you were shacking up it was adultry. if you were married prior to repentance it was adultry. if you have repented and turned your life over to Christ, God recognizes your CURRENT marriage and His commands regarding marital responsibility, including intimacy, apply to you and your wife.

according to the logic you're using, Abraham would be in hell, do you realize that? because he was married to his half sister. that's incest. it's a sin. but when Abraham dedicated his life to God, God no longer recognized sarah as abraham's sister, He recognized her as abraham's wife.

God keeps His word, anti-hillbilly. even His promise to forgive you, to love you, to bless you, and to let you inherit His kingdom.

Listen to yourself; everything you said is exactly the same thing a homosexual could (and some do) say. It's called bending the rules for me.

Incest is just nasty but I guess those rules got bent too. Do you think all of God's rule via the bible were meant to be bent or just the ones that apply to us?

there is no bending of rules. one of God's own rules is GRACE. God doesn't bend the rules for homosexuals, or for incestuous relationships, or for adultrous relationships. but HE FORGIVES when we repent. oh, and the definition of repent does not mean just saying i'm sorry, it means not continuing in that sin.

God didn't bend the rules for abraham. God remembered abraham's sin of incest no more and recognized sarah only as abraham's wife. just as God remembers the sin of your divorce no more, and recognizes your current spouse as your spouse.

it's all about grace. God's grace. not God's bending of rules, not God's hypocrisy (because he isn't hypocritical), it's about His grace, which is spoken of throughout the Bible, including the portions of the Bible that you actually believe are true.

i'm telling you what's right there in the Bible. i have to say though, that you are the one picking and choosing what will apply and what won't. you are accusing me, and cobalt, and others, of picking and choosing only the scriptures that make us feel good. but that's not the case. we're laying it ALL out there... you are picking and choosing only the portions which make you feel BAD.

none of us deserve God's grace, anti-hillbilly. we all fall short. without God's grace, we'd all be going to hell in a handbasket. He extends His grace not because we deserve it, not because of a reward, but because HE LOVES US.

please, accept the grace that He is extending to you!

[Smalcald]

The thing to remember the letters of Paul from an historical perspective were written about one hundred years before the Gospel

[Smalcald]

God didn't bend the rules for abraham. God remembered abraham's sin of incest no more and recognized sarah only as abraham's wife. just as God remembers the sin of your divorce no more, and recognizes your current spouse as your spouse.

I think the point she is making is that God said you are married only once and if you divorce except for reasons of unfaithfulness, you are not really divorced but still married. Christ does say this. Thus a second marriage after becoming a believer would be continuing in sin would be adultery. No different than if you were married and simply moved in with another women who is your lover, in fact this is what you are doing in God's eyes if you take those passages in that way.

[Guest LadyC]

well then praise God, i'm covered, since my first marriage was full of adultry on both sides of the fence.

smalclad, i understand what you're saying and what anti-H is saying. but unlike anti-H, you believe in the Bible as the inspired word of God... all of it. including the message of grace. including the scripture that is directed at divorcees and unmarrieds alike, that says if you marry you have not sinned (speaking to those who have repented of divorce of course.)

there are only six scripture passages in the Bible which address divorce, to my knowledge. for those who believe that ALL of scripture is by inspiration of God and so on, then the one verse which demonstrates God's grace being extended even to those who have repented of divorce is no less valid than the other five. the one does not excuse divorce, does not justify divorce, does not condone divorce. it simply shows that God's grace is sufficient even for those sinners who've obtained one.

[anti-hillbilly]

Jesus said in Mat. 19:9

I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.

The divorce is granted as an exception to the rule because of sexual imorality. If the divorce is then sanctioned then remarriage can also be sanctioned. The exception voids the adultery for the spouse which was wronged by the other spouses infidelity.

Peace

CJ

Edited October 16, 2006 by anti-hillbilly

[anti-hillbilly]

A-H, I feel like you are attempting to twist our words around because they do not jive with what you want or choose to believe.

The bible accuracy issue first. You have to either believe that the bible is divinely inspired, or not believe it. All of it, not part of it. It either is, or it is not. The bible, historically-speaking is the most accurate document we have. It is 95% or more true to the original transcripts. Any differences are alternate names, words, spellings, etc. that do not change the bibles message or doctrine at all. Scribes were extremely careful when they made copies, and they were checked over myraids of times. If a mistake was found, they were burned. Examination of the dead sea scrolls has proven this fact, once again. If it were not for the fact that the secular world does not like the message that the bible contains, it would be accepted without question, purely on accuracy terms. When you talk about the Roman Catholics tampering with the bible, perhaps you are talking about apochraphile books which were not officially canonized by the protestants. This was because they did not meet the criteria for divinely-inspired books. They were found to be gnostic, forged, or to not have doctrine that was consistant wth other books of the bible. My remark about throwing your bible in the trash was sarcastic.

I don't look at my past life as 'dirty laundry.' I look at it as a testimony. There are lots of things in it that I'm not proud of, but if sharing with someone else will help them in any way, I am an open book.

On the face of it, your theory of being in a constant state of 'sin' if you divorce and re-marriage sounds correct, but it is wrong. Even if the divorce was wrong, and the re-marriage was wrong, once you confess your sin, repent, and ask forgiveness, you are no longer in a state of sin. I don't know how much clearer that can be. If you were divorcing and re-marrying every day, then you are in a state of sin, but otherwise, no.

If you feel as if being in your current marriage as being in a daily state of sin, what do you feel you need to do to rectify the situation? If this is honestly how you feel, then you are in a state of willful and habitual sin. I've been divorced and remarried and I don't feel that way about my marriage at all, because I know it isn't true.

I guess I'm standing here drowning on the low moral ground. . .

You're the one doing the twisting here; not me. I do not feel that my current marriage is a "daily state of sin" anymore than you do because I do not believe every word of the bible is divinely inspired; nor am I required to believe it because you or anyone else says so. Same for you guys, you read the words of the bible then proceed with, "I know God found my new husband/wife for me; I know God approves of my unbiblical remarriage" even if it clearly contradicts the bible you say you believe in 100%. Like I said earlier, I'm just willing to admit out loud that I don't buy it all and I refuse to come down on others like a ton of bricks involving sins that I haven't committed.

My point in this was the hypocrisy and how people really follow current culture rather than the bible they thump. If it's culturally accepable they find a way to navigate the bible to "make it biblically so" even if the bible says otherwise.

At the end of the day it is you guys who are attempting to make the bible say what you want or choose to believe; not me.

[Guest Theology_Professor]

There are other scriptural reasons for divorce.

1. If an unbeliever leaves, let him. There are many cases where two people marry and neither is a Christian. Then one becomes a Christian and the other remains unsaved. This can cause much strife. The Lord would have us live in peace.

2. Adultery and fornication.

3. Death

I also do not believe God would force any woman to stay with a man who abuses her and may resort to killing her at some point in time. Abuse to her and/or the children. Someone has to watch out for the children and if she has to leave an abusive man to do so, then bless her. Abuse is not love. Abuse is not Christian.

What the bible speaks about regarding divorce is divorcing over stupid things like.... she burnt the dinner, which did happen. They were not taking the marriage seriously. Again, each situation has to be evaluated on its own. No two relationships have the same dynamics.

In each of these cases the innocent party is free to remarry, but only in the Lord.

To avoid all this... Christians should not even be dating non-christians and if they do get one that appears to be a Christian, make sure. Not all who claim Christianity really are. Another problem. Some will go to church just to get a "good girl" then quit going to church. In essence, he lied about who he was. The marriage is then based on fraud.

[anti-hillbilly]

Just exactly what parts of the bible do you believe are not divinely inspired, and just what exactly makes you believe that they are not?

I believe God is good not evil. If it's something good I think God may have had a hand in it or inspired fallible humans to write it. If it's bad or hurts people I think fallible humans were speaking for themselves and saying, "God told me to write this". As Abraham Lincoln once said, "When I do good, I feel good; When I do bad, I feel bad", that's my religion. For a mentally healthy person I would call that a conscience or being filled with the Holy Spirit; it's that "something inside" that lets you know the difference between right and wrong.

You are telling us "the bible says this about divorce" but on the other hand, you are saying that the bible, at least partially, is not the divinely inspired word of God. You cannot have it both ways.

I know how to read, just because I can read it and understand what's it's saying doesn't mean I agree with it.

You and a few others are the ones who are trying to have it both ways: You say you believe all of the bible is the divine word of God then proceed to disobey the words of Jesus where this issue is concerned or just add to what He said.... That leaves me with the conclusion that you yourself do not believe every word is divinely inspired; otherwise, you would obey all of it and not just the parts you happen to agree with like the anti-homosexual verses credited to Paul. These aren't the only two issues that people do this with either.

Christ's saving grace covers every sin, save blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Period. There is not one single post in here that I made where I said God gave me my wife. I made no comment on that one way or the other. I do know that I am not living in sin, and I am not a second-class citizen to God because I've been divorced. I am as free from that as I am from any other sin I've committed in my life.

I was referring to the words of another poster here; which are words I have heard used many times by other divorcees. I think I may have even uttered them myself a few times years and years ago. I would agree that grace covers ALL sins; not just mine..... but my neighbor's too.