Pagan Origins and Christianity

[apothanein kerdos]

Emily, you missed the point, go back and re-read it.

If anything, you proved her point.

[Emily~Anne]

Emily, you missed the point, go back and re-read it.

If anything, you proved her point.

I understood perfectly and replied. I do not avoid all things pagan. I avoid things with pure pagan origins that do not honor God at all.

Edited October 23, 2006 by Emily Anne

[apothanein kerdos]

I do not avoid all things with pagan origins. I avoid things with pure pagan origins that do not honor God at all.

These ideas contradict themselves.

[Guest shiloh357]

Emily, you missed the point, go back and re-read it.

If anything, you proved her point.

It is extremely dangerous for people to adopt this puritanical idea that we must avoid all things with pagan origins. Not only is it impossible to live this belief consistently (for one must then avoid everything on the above lists, including baptism), it also borders on Gnosticism (a heretical belief/religion which was the early church's most dangerous threat).

quote from original post by kabowd

I understood perfectly and replied. I do not avoid all things with pagan origins. I avoid things with pure pagan origins that do not honor God at all.

What I hear you saying is that are only apply this to spiritual matters, and not practical matters such as the names of the days of the week, and the names of the month. You are correct in one thing. There is no way to avoid things with pagan origins altogether, otherwise we cannot function in this world at all. Many of our words in English come from the names of pagan deities so obviously we cannot avoid paganism altogether, it is in this world.

Emily, we have, every year about this time, people who jump on here going on and on about the paganism of Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Some of the resistance is based upon having rehash the same arguments, having the same recycled topics redebated every year, and still no one's mind is changed. Pretty soon, we will be told that we cannot put a wreath on our door, put up a tree, sing carols, drink eggnog, or roast chestnuts. It just gets old. Most of us, trick or treated when we were young, and we did not go off and join the Wiccans, or become satanists, or learn Necromancy. For many of us it was just a fun way to get candy, and when the night was over, it was over. Most of us, even from a young age, have been able to divorce fiction from reality, and when the Halloween decor went away, our minds were soon fixed on the presents we wanted on Christmas.

So, some of the resistance also comes from the fact, that most of us have not been harmed by Halloween and thus fail to see a reason for the great alarm that is sounded every year.

Also there is frustation with the fact that so many who harp about the pagan origins of Halloween, will ignore the pagan origins of Christmans and Easter, thus eroding any sense of internal consistency. Suddenly when it comes to Christmas the whole "pagan orgin" thing becomes highly overrated, and these same people who were preaching about avoiding paganism last Halloween embrace it at Christmas time. It is very disconcerting when this happens.

[Fiosh]

My boys went to a Catholic elementary school. For Halloween, they had to dress up as a saint that they admired. It put the emphasis on God and those who lived their lives in service to Him.

Of course, the candy was still the main focus for the kids!

[Emily~Anne]

There is no way to avoid things with pagan origins altogether, otherwise we cannot function in this world at all. Many of our words in English come from the names of pagan deities so obviously we cannot avoid paganism altogether, it is in this world.

But there IS a way to avoid Halloween which has a VERY pagan/satanic origin<--(inserted by Emily)

Also there is frustation with the fact that so many who harp about the pagan origins of Halloween, will ignore the pagan origins of Christmans and Easter, thus eroding any sense of internal consistency. Suddenly when it comes to Christmas the whole "pagan orgin" thing becomes highly overrated, and these same people who were preaching about avoiding paganism last Halloween embrace it at Christmas time. It is very disconcerting when this happens.

I believe I can ignore the pagan origins of Christmas and Easter without needing to ignore the reason I have for rejoicing and praising God. Take out Santa Claus and Easter Bunnies, etc., and focus on what the holiday is really about. Take out jack-o-lanterns, trick or treating, dressing up in costumes, and etc., and uhhh... well that doesn't leave much does it? There is nothing about the day that honors God more than any other day. So therefore for us, Halloween is not a holiday worth celebrating for me and my family. And my whole family agrees.

[Kabowd]

I believe I can ignore the pagan origins of Christmas and Easter without needing to ignore the reason I have for rejoicing and praising God. Take out Santa Claus and Easter Bunnies, etc., and focus on what the holiday is really about.

You've shown you're quite good at ignoring things, that's for sure.

You're picking and choosing which pagan practices you'll accept and use versus which pagan practices you'll reject and avoid...but you have absolutely no intellectual consistency or rational basis for doing so. Did you read post #27? Did you understand what misplaced metaphysical dualism is?

[LadyRaven]

Emily, we have, every year about this time, people who jump on here going on and on about the paganism of Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Some of the resistance is based upon having rehash the same arguments, having the same recycled topics redebated every year, and still no one's mind is changed. Pretty soon, we will be told that we cannot put a wreath on our door, put up a tree, sing carols, drink eggnog, or roast chestnuts. It just gets old. Most of us, trick or treated when we were young, and we did not go off and join the Wiccans, or become satanists, or learn Necromancy. For many of us it was just a fun way to get candy, and when the night was over, it was over. Most of us, even from a young age, have been able to divorce fiction from reality, and when the Halloween decor went away, our minds were soon fixed on the presents we wanted on Christmas.

And those of us who went into the occult did not do so because of Halloween, and many of us who were pagan did not at any time during their paganism celebrate Samhain by trick or treating, bobbing for apples, making crepe paper ghosts or dressing up in costumes. Perhaps, hundreds of years ago pagans celebrated Samhain by doing these things, but none that I know of do so now. It's ancient history.

Also there is frustation with the fact that so many who harp about the pagan origins of Halloween, will ignore the pagan origins of Christmans and Easter, thus eroding any sense of internal consistency. Suddenly when it comes to Christmas the whole "pagan orgin" thing becomes highly overrated, and these same people who were preaching about avoiding paganism last Halloween embrace it at Christmas time. It is very disconcerting when this happens.

The early church sometimes took pagan celebration days and redeemed them by giving them a new Christian meaning which would be "similar enough" to the pagan meaning that you can actually if you try see the truth in the scripture that teaches the pagans "know" the truth but have supressed it. Halloween is about death and the afterlife, what's wrong with christians taking that and teaching and celebrating the truth about death and the afterlife? Taking ancient symbols of lies and making them into symbols of truth is actually very powerful if done well and prudently.

[LadyRaven]

Now, how about Halloween? Put the fact that babies are sacrificed and children drugged and molested in Satanic worships on this day on one side of the scale, and put kids dressing up and eating candy on the other. Those Satanic worships are a much heavier idea to contend with. Our kids can dress up any old day and eat candy any old day. It is not worth it to honor satan's day.

Your sources are questionable at best. Here is a very very historically accurate site about halloween. Pay particular attention to the second page, where "satanic ritual abuse" is discussed and original sources linked. These people are believers and are just interested that when we stand against lies, we do so from a framework of truth. You've been told a passel of lies and you believing them will not only tie you to fear but... it ruins your wittness to those caught in paganism.

[Emily~Anne]

Now, how about Halloween? Put the fact that babies are sacrificed and children drugged and molested in Satanic worships on this day on one side of the scale, and put kids dressing up and eating candy on the other. Those Satanic worships are a much heavier idea to contend with. Our kids can dress up any old day and eat candy any old day. It is not worth it to honor satan's day.

Your sources are questionable at best. Here is a very very historically accurate site about halloween. Pay particular attention to the second page, where "satanic ritual abuse" is discussed and original sources linked. These people are believers and are just interested that when we stand against lies, we do so from a framework of truth. You've been told a passel of lies and you believing them will not only tie you to fear but... it ruins your wittness to those caught in paganism.

Your calling my foster mother a liar? Even if she was (which she is NOT) Halloween is still satanic in origin, it is how Halloween STARTED.