24 yr olds given over 15 years for spanking

[Guest LadyC]

why do people confuse the death penalty through the justice system with killing for personal revenge? there's a clear difference, the Bible makes the differences very distinguishable, and gives authority for one while forbidding the other. and by the way, there aren't enough prison cells in the world to quarantine all violent criminals who would otherwise be on death row. but that's beside the point. the point is what is and what is not biblical, and the death penalty is.

anyway, i'll also get back on topic. the men responsible for 'spanking' that boy weren't disciplining him, they were torturing him. 15 years may not be long enough. i hope it was at least a mandatory sentence with no parole option.

[jackie d]

I may not like it. But here is how it is..one day my daughter came home and told me how she had gotten mad at one of the boys in her class because he accidentally ripped a paper of hers. When the little boy didn't seem sorry enough for his actions she got other kids in the classroom to verbally gang up on the little boy during lunch recess causing him to cry and tell the principle. They ended up in the principles office for it. I let her tell me the story and then I spanked her. Why? Because she treated another person with contempt and it is wrong. I hugged her after, told her that I love her and explained why she was spanked. She will not forget the incident.

Nor should the people that harm others..if the law is there for people's protection then let them do their job. If there was ever a time that I was called for jury duty and it was a murder case and part of the job was to deal the death sentence or not. If the death sentence was deemed righteous according to the heinousness of the crime and the law of the state. Then I would vote in favor of it.

There would most certainly be less crime if there were stricter punishments made by our lawmakers and enforcers. And if there weren't so many grey areas for criminals and their attorney's to work around. Again, an eye for an eye.

blessings

Here's the thing. You gave your daughter a punishment in order to help her. The death penalty doesn't help the criminal, who for all you know might be innocent. It doesn't help society, because the person might just as easily be quarantined from society in prison. In England, for instance, there is no capital punishment and do you know, the majority of police officers don't even carry guns.

Let's be honest. The purpose of the death penalty is retribution. Whatever arguments we fabricate, the reason we all like it is because we know that a murderer "deserves it." Well so do I. Thank God we don't all get what we deserve.

For the sake of getting back to the topic, I agree that people who abuse children should be removed from society, but to protect society, not to simply slake our thirst for blood . . . right guys? Whatever exceeds what is necessary to protect society lowers us to the level of criminals ourselves.

And I agree they should be removed from society as well..

Christ said that anyone who causes on of these children to sin would be better off to tie a millstone around their necks and be thrown into the sea...and He was simply speaking of someone who might cause one to stumble. He isn't speaking of all of the other things that happen to one who is treated in the manner that I am about to discuss.

Here is an example of our criminal justice system at work and how it protected society because of what you have suggested we subscribe to. At least 20 yrs ago maybe longer, a man picked up girl who was hitchhiking (I believe) she was between the ages of 14 and 16..he took her to a deserted road in the middle of nowhere California, brutally raped her cut off her arms right below the elbow and left her for dead in a field by this road..the girl lived. She pulled herself through this field by her bloody stumps to the side of the road and was discovered by a couple driving on the road during the day.

She saw this incident through to trial, the man was tried and sent to prison. He served his time...the girl, her family, friends and the majority of the state of California appealed with the parole board and the courts to not release this man. This man should have had to spend the rest of his life in prison for what he had done to that girl. But they had to let him go. After all he had served his sentence.

This man who had been quarantined from society after such a brutal crime and it probably hadn't been his first and the others may have even died..who knows, had to be let go. He skipped the state of California and went to Florida. One evening a man was walking down a street and had a camera with him. He looks into this lit window (curtain pulled closed) and video tapes the silhouette of a man stabbing a woman over and over and over..I saw this on the news, shown for all the country to see. The man killing the woman was none other than the man who had raped the young girl so many years back, in California.

He went to prison for that..the woman he was stabbing..died.

Tell me how protected was society from this man? And how rehabilitated was this man? I for one don't feel I should have to pay taxes to house such grotesque things as the man who did this while he spends the rest of his life or not in prison for taking another person's life. Prisons are good and they serve a purpose...but so does the death penalty. And it has nothing to do with seeking retribution for the actions of the person who is facing the death penalty. It has to do with consequence befitting of the crime. I don't believe that every situation is the same and that others may even rehabilitate to never commit a crime again. Forensic psychiatrists however can pretty much profile an individual and determine whether or not a criminal after incarceration would be a repeat offender.

And a just a side note on something you said...for the most part we usually DO get what we deserve.

The men who harmed this child by beating him...should be in jail and they should have long sentences. It was brutal and sadistic.

Thanks for letting me ramble on..I'll get off the soap box now....smiles

Blessings

[Guest man]

2 grown men beat an 11 year old child. One held him down while the other one beat him. They turned up the radio to cover his screams. It was reported that these guys were ministers and that the reason for the 90 minute beating was that this child wasn't studying his bible. They put him in ICU for not studying his bible.

Aside from what these guys did to this child, what do you think they did to the Word of God? How many people were turned off to the notion of God because of what these 2 ministers did? Think of how many people will spend an eternity in darkness because of what these so called workers of God did to this child.

They will get their just reward, and they will have to answer for each and every soul they helped to destroy.

I guess what I am trying to say is that our actions and words touch more then just the people we are involved with. There are always onlookers. There are always those who are just passing through. They catch a glimpse of what is being said or what is being done and make a decision based on that witness. Sometimes that decision is good, other times it's not.

Once our word's and action's get inside another person's head, they can't be taken back.

[siddharta]

I may not like it. But here is how it is..one day my daughter came home and told me how she had gotten mad at one of the boys in her class because he accidentally ripped a paper of hers. When the little boy didn't seem sorry enough for his actions she got other kids in the classroom to verbally gang up on the little boy during lunch recess causing him to cry and tell the principle. They ended up in the principles office for it. I let her tell me the story and then I spanked her. Why? Because she treated another person with contempt and it is wrong. I hugged her after, told her that I love her and explained why she was spanked. She will not forget the incident.

Nor should the people that harm others..if the law is there for people's protection then let them do their job. If there was ever a time that I was called for jury duty and it was a murder case and part of the job was to deal the death sentence or not. If the death sentence was deemed righteous according to the heinousness of the crime and the law of the state. Then I would vote in favor of it.

There would most certainly be less crime if there were stricter punishments made by our lawmakers and enforcers. And if there weren't so many grey areas for criminals and their attorney's to work around. Again, an eye for an eye.

blessings

Here's the thing. You gave your daughter a punishment in order to help her. The death penalty doesn't help the criminal, who for all you know might be innocent. It doesn't help society, because the person might just as easily be quarantined from society in prison. In England, for instance, there is no capital punishment and do you know, the majority of police officers don't even carry guns.

Let's be honest. The purpose of the death penalty is retribution. Whatever arguments we fabricate, the reason we all like it is because we know that a murderer "deserves it." Well so do I. Thank God we don't all get what we deserve.

For the sake of getting back to the topic, I agree that people who abuse children should be removed from society, but to protect society, not to simply slake our thirst for blood . . . right guys? Whatever exceeds what is necessary to protect society lowers us to the level of criminals ourselves.

And I agree they should be removed from society as well..

Christ said that anyone who causes on of these children to sin would be better off to tie a millstone around their necks and be thrown into the sea...and He was simply speaking of someone who might cause one to stumble. He isn't speaking of all of the other things that happen to one who is treated in the manner that I am about to discuss.

Here is an example of our criminal justice system at work and how it protected society because of what you have suggested we subscribe to. At least 20 yrs ago maybe longer, a man picked up girl who was hitchhiking (I believe) she was between the ages of 14 and 16..he took her to a deserted road in the middle of nowhere California, brutally raped her cut off her arms right below the elbow and left her for dead in a field by this road..the girl lived. She pulled herself through this field by her bloody stumps to the side of the road and was discovered by a couple driving on the road during the day.

She saw this incident through to trial, the man was tried and sent to prison. He served his time...the girl, her family, friends and the majority of the state of California appealed with the parole board and the courts to not release this man. This man should have had to spend the rest of his life in prison for what he had done to that girl. But they had to let him go. After all he had served his sentence.

This man who had been quarantined from society after such a brutal crime and it probably hadn't been his first and the others may have even died..who knows, had to be let go. He skipped the state of California and went to Florida. One evening a man was walking down a street and had a camera with him. He looks into this lit window (curtain pulled closed) and video tapes the silhouette of a man stabbing a woman over and over and over..I saw this on the news, shown for all the country to see. The man killing the woman was none other than the man who had raped the young girl so many years back, in California.

He went to prison for that..the woman he was stabbing..died.

Tell me how protected was society from this man? And how rehabilitated was this man? I for one don't feel I should have to pay taxes to house such grotesque things as the man who did this while he spends the rest of his life or not in prison for taking another person's life. Prisons are good and they serve a purpose...but so does the death penalty. And it has nothing to do with seeking retribution for the actions of the person who is facing the death penalty. It has to do with consequence befitting of the crime. I don't believe that every situation is the same and that others may even rehabilitate to never commit a crime again. Forensic psychiatrists however can pretty much profile an individual and determine whether or not a criminal after incarceration would be a repeat offender.

And a just a side note on something you said...for the most part we usually DO get what we deserve.

The men who harmed this child by beating him...should be in jail and they should have long sentences. It was brutal and sadistic.

Thanks for letting me ramble on..I'll get off the soap box now....smiles

Blessings

What you are pointing out is that our criminal justice system is faulty and unable to appropriately determine who is or is not dangerous. You are talking about criminals who were let go, and who were let go, may I point out, under the constraints of a system that would have allowed them to be executed. Thus having the death penalty available did nothing to keep these criminals off the streets, did it? Had they been kept in prison, as I am suggesting, nothing would have happened such as the tragedy you describe. Keeping the man in prison would have appropriate and was necessary, killing him utterly excessive and not in keeping with the new covenant. Your example nicely illustrates precisely what I am trying to say--that criminals are only dangerous to society when they are released back into society.

Too many innocent people have died after being falsely convicted. Somehow, most every other developed nation has done away with the death penalty. If there aren't enough prison cells, our tax dollars would be well-spent to build a few more. Should we kill people we just don't have room for?

As for getting what we deserve, every person on this board deserves to burn, but in Christ we've been saved. In that case, none of us will be getting what we deserve.

As for the death penalty being biblical, the Bible also mandates death for those who commit adultery. Or, at least, those were the laws given to Israel, along with the thing about an eye for an eye. That's the OLD COVENANT. What does Jesus do? When he finds the woman caught in adultery, he spares her. This verse was aptly quoted previously:

"You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth". But I say to you, do not resist an evildoer. If anyone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:38-39) Furthermore, we are called to forgive others as we ourselves have been forgiven. The old rules no longer apply.

[Guest LadyC]

butero, we finally disagree on something. i don't think it was excessive (the punishment) because what they did to that child went beyond spanking. they beat him half to death. the boy is lucky to have survived.

[Guest LadyC]

here's a link to a better report of what happened, including testimony of the child and of the doctors who treated him....

(sorry, i thought you were aware that the original post had been debunked.)

http://www.nospank.net/n-l15r.htm

[Guest LadyC]

we usually are

[Guest man]

Now to get back to the subject in the thread itself, while it was not appropriate for workers in a church to spank someone else's children, the prison sentence was excessive, to say the least. They should have gotten maybe 6 months probation, in my opinion. There is no common sense today when it comes to the court system. Serious criminals get a slap on the wrist and someone like this serves hard time. The punishment is definately excessive, and hopefully it will be reduced on appeal.

They beat that kid so bad he had to be hospitalized. These people were in their twenties, that child was eleven years old. And what makes this thing the worst thing of all, is that those two individuals did it under the guise of righteous punishment.

Excessive prison sentence?.....I don't think so.

[Guest LadyC]

Now to get back to the subject in the thread itself, while it was not appropriate for workers in a church to spank someone else's children, the prison sentence was excessive, to say the least. They should have gotten maybe 6 months probation, in my opinion. There is no common sense today when it comes to the court system. Serious criminals get a slap on the wrist and someone like this serves hard time. The punishment is definately excessive, and hopefully it will be reduced on appeal.

They beat that kid so bad he had to be hospitalized. These people were in their twenties, that child was eleven years old. And what makes this thing the worst thing of all, is that those two individuals did it under the guise of righteous punishment.

Excessive prison sentence?.....I don't think so.

he wasn't aware of the facts of the case when he said that, man... now that he knows, he doesn't think it was excessive.

[Guest man]

Now to get back to the subject in the thread itself, while it was not appropriate for workers in a church to spank someone else's children, the prison sentence was excessive, to say the least. They should have gotten maybe 6 months probation, in my opinion. There is no common sense today when it comes to the court system. Serious criminals get a slap on the wrist and someone like this serves hard time. The punishment is definately excessive, and hopefully it will be reduced on appeal.

They beat that kid so bad he had to be hospitalized. These people were in their twenties, that child was eleven years old. And what makes this thing the worst thing of all, is that those two individuals did it under the guise of righteous punishment.

Excessive prison sentence?.....I don't think so.

he wasn't aware of the facts of the case when he said that, man... now that he knows, he doesn't think it was excessive.

Yes,I see that.

No harm done.

There is a lesson to be learned here though....does anyone see it?