A Roman Miracle

[mobile21]

Mobile21

As for the passage, it is an example of intercession because the mother of the king receives a petition and then presents it to her son. The Virgin Mary is obviously not there but it's an analogy.

So how do you use the 1 Kings passage to show Mary's intercession for the saints, when we do NOT have even ONE verse in the Bible that says that she does? Only Jesus intercedes for the Saints according to Hebrews.

In the Old Testament there isn'ta trace of spiritual intercession because all the dead were not in the Glory of the Lord but since Jesus died for mankind's sins and He opened the Gates of Heaven to us, now we can ask to those in presence of our Lord to incercede for us.

I want to stress the point that the people in God's presence are the ones who can intercede for us. Jesus Christ does not intercedes because He is God, therefore He doesn't intercedes but directly saves (Lk 23:42-43).

[Douay]

Artsylady:

The Catholic Church takes marriage seriously. We believe that when you agree to until death do you part, and what God has joined let no man divide, and so forth, that those are real vows, and are lifelong. There are reasons for which a marriage can be annulled, and reasons for which the Church will grant a divorce. If the marriage is annulled then it is like it never happened, if one gets a divorce, however, it is not permissible to remarry. If one does remarry then they have committed a sin and are not allowed to recieve communion. This is an ongoing sin. Catholics are not supposed to go to communion in the state of sin.

Douay

[irishcowboy]

wow, that is a different tune now....

earlier, there was a post that said that it was untrue that a person that was divorced was no longer able to participate in the communion, and now there is one saying that they can not while divorced...

how about this for a fine example.......

a man cheating on his wife, who has 4 children, the wife divorces him for unfaithfulness...... he continues to do as he has been doing..... and then he remarries, and later she remarries....... again, the man is cheating on his current wife, now with two more children, and she divorces him for same reason...... later he remarries again, and she does not...... both women are no longer welcome in the catholic church, because of the divorce....

the man, on his death bed, then petitions the courts to have the divorces annulled....... wow, now he has only been married one time??? is wlcomed back in to the catholic church, and has thus left 6 children behind as " illegit " children.... for being that he has never been married to their mothers, that makes them illegit... or as the church might call them " Bastard " children.....

the women are still not in "THE CHURCH" because they are "divorced" .....

go figure.....

and are you going to tell me this is a crock???? if so, then you best look a bit deeper into the rules about it, for this is 100% truth....... yes, one hundred percent truth....

this is not about me, just some one that is dear to me... i have known all my life, I have known all the people here my entire life, all three women, and the man.... as well as the children....... oh, by the way, the man also was practicing homosexuallity.... wow,

mike

[nicholas]

Artsylady,

From the Catholic Catechism,

"Whoever divorces his wife and remarries another, commits adulteryagainst her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery. The Church maintains that a new union cannot be recognized as valid, if the first marriage was. If the divorced are remarried civilly, they find themselves in a situation that objectively cantravenes God's law. Consequently, they cannot recieve Eucharistic communion as long as this situation persists. For the same reason, they connot exercise certain ecclesial responsibilities. Reconciliation through the sacremant of Penance can be granted only to those who have repented for having violated the sign of the covenant and of fidelity to Christ, and who are committed to living in complete continence.

Continence means restraining from sex for those who do not know.

Nicholas

[Guest charlie]

<<Congratulations Charlie: You've found TWO protestant child molesters. One from 1907 and one from modern day. Come on. How does this logically compare to widespread sexual molestation of youngsters in the Catholic church. be honest with yourself. Please, for your own sake. It just doesn't compare. >>

I found a lot more than two artsy and to be honest after reading some of these reports it's ruined my day. Here's a link to many, many, reports of sexual molestation and sexual misconduct among protestant church leaders. But be prepared it's vile:

http://www.reformation.com/allabuse.html

You're right about these things being rampant artsy but it's not just one denomination. It appears to be most of them. It looks more and more to me like the safest place for a child is at home, not Sunday school. It's good that these things are coming out in the open but don't let the media's focus on the Catholic abuses lull you into a false sense of security in your local protestant church, or give you a feeling of smug superiority either. My daddy always said preachers were theives and womanizers. No doubt about it some are child molestors too.

[artsylady]

hi Charlie:

I'm not sure the source of the information, (never heard of it before) but in total it looks like 838 non-catholic clergy were charged from around the world.

From USA today link.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-1...t-1dcover_x.htm

there were 900 priests in the USA alone. And I think, hopefully, we can trust USA today. (maybe)

But I agree, the problem is a great one. I'm almost more worried about the cover-ups that have occured. I think it's horrendous that superiors in the Catholic church knew about the molestations and didn't call police. They simply moved these offenders around to different cities allowing them to reoffend. I see that as a big problem with the heirarchy of the catholic church. Also, mosts of the clergy in the links you provided looked like they were charged only by one offender in most cases. In many cases with Catholics, one priest could be charged with abusing many many alter boys over the course of many many years.

I'm do believe my kids are safe at my church. They always have at least 2 workers working and they have to have police clearances. This is a good policy that all churches should adopt. I think you have to pick a place that you trust - and not lose total faith in humanity.

[artsylady]

This is an ongoing sin. Catholics are not supposed to go to communion in the state of sin.

So the answer is 'yes' its true that divorced persons are not allowed to take communion? I said that divorced people are treated as second class citizens and was yelled at. Jesus just said "Go and sin no more, your sins are forgiven'. And by the way, that lady was beaten almost to death by her husband. She did stop going to church as well.

[artsylady]

this is not about me, just some one that is dear to me... i have known all my life, I have known all the people here my entire life, all three women, and the man.... as well as the children....... oh, by the way, the man also was practicing homosexuallity.... wow,

Whoa.

[Guest shiloh357]

I want to stress the point that the people in God's presence are the ones who can intercede for us. Jesus Christ does not intercedes because He is God, therefore He doesn't intercedes but directly saves (Lk 23:42-43).

Read Hebrews 7:25

Hence, also, He[Christ] is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Christ DOES make intercession for us according to the word of God. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that people in God's presence can intercede for us. You have no scripture to defend that. You are just using man-made tradition. I can show that it is Christ who intercedes for us

[Douay]

hi Charlie:

I'm not sure the source of the information, (never heard of it before) but in total it looks like 838 non-catholic clergy were charged from around the world.

From USA today link.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-1...t-1dcover_x.htm

there were 900 priests in the USA alone. And I think, hopefully, we can trust USA today. (maybe)

But I agree, the problem is a great one. I'm almost more worried about the cover-ups that have occured. I think it's horrendous that superiors in the Catholic church knew about the molestations and didn't call police. They simply moved these offenders around to different cities allowing them to reoffend. I see that as a big problem with the heirarchy of the catholic church. Also, mosts of the clergy in the links you provided looked like they were charged only by one offender in most cases. In many cases with Catholics, one priest could be charged with abusing many many alter boys over the course of many many years.

Remember also that 60% of the world's Christians are Catholics. That's 50% percent more Catholics than Protestants. In those diocese, I don't know why the bishops moved them around and didn't get them out of their parishes, and out of all parishes. I think the shortage of priests may be a reason that an innocent bishop would try to work with them and not 'fire' them or whatever course of action would be deemed the best. I think some of those bishops may have been just like those priests but found their way up the ladder for exactly the reason to protect pedophile priests. Sad, but who knows for sure. How many cases one of these pedophiles got away with and how many actually came forward is something that we will never know. Also, the hype surrounding the Catholic problem caused a great many to come forward who wouldn't have otherwise, if a similar situation existed for the Protestant churches I wouldn't be surprised if a great many more victims surfaced.

Douay