In the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit

[EricH]

The fact that these forms are becoming issues may be an indication that folks have placed an undue emphasis on them. Worship is supposed to be about God. When we are more worried about what others are doing, or worried about justifying something we are doing, perhaps the focus has shifted from the One who is supposed to be the object of our worship, to the form itself.

Good point. Actually as I was contemplating this question, I was more interested in the actual words of ( in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,) as apposed to the hand motion in the sign of the cross. But I am finding the conversation about the sign of the cross interesting as well. A Baptist friend of mine made a comment that it is important to end our prayers in the name of Jesus. Ok I have no problem with that. The other day during our prayer group another Catholic man (yep there are two of us now) concluded with a prayer and ended the prayer with "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" I sensed a tension among the group, nothing stated just a sense. Now you know the motivation for the question. Why would those words create tension among a group of Christian men?

God bless,

K.D.

The words themselves should create no tension. It is the baggage that some people associate with them that will cause the tension. It is the same thing with raising hands, or singing modern choruses, or old hymns. All of them can produce negative reactions in people. That is what is so ironic about the whole thing. The very thing that is supposed to get us focusing on God (worship), gets us focusing on ourselves and others. Satan is smarter than we think sometimes

[Smalcald]

My friend I know lutherans also sign themselves, I had the privilige to offer the blessing before our volunteer dinner given to us by the hospital we work in.Before I started the prayer I asked that those whose tradition is to sign themselves before they begin their prayers to do so now,that we may be one spirit,onemind and one voice to the Glory of God and Him only. And I firmily believe that anyonewho added thier Amen to mine it was also their prayer I was just the voice. I am not offended by the sign of The Cross,it is a great picture of my salvation. Love in Christ littlejoe

Yes Lutherans also do this, although in my experience not as much as Roman Catholics for whatever reason.

I think it is good; I do it when I take communion. I sometimes do it when I pray although not always. The only problem or main problem I see with the practice is when or if it becomes route, and just something somebody does. I don't really like it for example when athletes do it before batting or after hitting a home run, etc. But that is a personal judgment.

But people who do not believe in the Trinity are not Christians, you cannot deny that Christ is God and know who Jesus is. If we don't know who Christ is, we are not Christians nor believers. A person who does not accept Jesus Christ as God, is no different in their belief from Muslims, who also believes that Christ was a born of a virgin and ascended into heaven, where Muslims differ from Christians is that they do not believe Jesus is God. Most of the Chrsitian cults, JW's, Mormans etc, have one thing in common, they reject the Trinity, which means they reject the divinity of Christ as God.

[speckles]

To me, crossing yourself is something silly. However, I don't think it's silly enough to get all fired up about. I mean my sister chews her hair and that's silly too, but I don't go around the bend when I see her do it.

WHO CARES if catholics cross themselves. WHO are they hurting? Do they demand that you do it? NOOOOOOooo

It's an expression which means something to them, but nothing to me. Nothing more, nothing less, people honestly have too much time on their hands if they worry about this stuff.

As to praying to the father son and hs, hmmm I'll have to look into that, I dunno why people do it. All the denoms I've ever visited did, so I'd assume it's a fairly scriptural tradition.

[Scarletprayers]

Actually, in the Word of God, we are commanded to worship with our bodies: raising hands, dancing, shouting, jumping. Those are things that we are supposed to do. In prayer, no where are we told to be seated. We are to be on our feet.

As there is nowhere in scripture that describes the "crossing" of oneself, I can safely say that it is a behaviour birthed out of religiosity.

Women are to pray with their head covered and the men are to raise their hands to heaven during prayer, if you take things like this as a literal prescription for worship.

Thank you LadyR!

It just seems to be the same old thing, long as I like it its, okay......................but

[Kansasdad]

My friend I know lutherans also sign themselves, I had the privilige to offer the blessing before our volunteer dinner given to us by the hospital we work in.Before I started the prayer I asked that those whose tradition is to sign themselves before they begin their prayers to do so now,that we may be one spirit,onemind and one voice to the Glory of God and Him only. And I firmily believe that anyonewho added thier Amen to mine it was also their prayer I was just the voice. I am not offended by the sign of The Cross,it is a great picture of my salvation. Love in Christ littlejoe

Yes Lutherans also do this, although in my experience not as much as Roman Catholics for whatever reason.

I think it is good; I do it when I take communion. I sometimes do it when I pray although not always. The only problem or main problem I see with the practice is when or if it becomes route, and just something somebody does. I don't really like it for example when athletes do it before batting or after hitting a home run, etc. But that is a personal judgment.

But people who do not believe in the Trinity are not Christians, you cannot deny that Christ is God and know who Jesus is. If we don't know who Christ is, we are not Christians nor believers. A person who does not accept Jesus Christ as God, is no different in their belief from Muslims, who also believes that Christ was a born of a virgin and ascended into heaven, where Muslims differ from Christians is that they do not believe Jesus is God. Most of the Chrsitian cults, JW's, Mormans etc, have one thing in common, they reject the Trinity, which means they reject the divinity of Christ as God.

1 John 5

7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.

[Kansasdad]

Actually, in the Word of God, we are commanded to worship with our bodies: raising hands, dancing, shouting, jumping. Those are things that we are supposed to do. In prayer, no where are we told to be seated. We are to be on our feet.

As there is nowhere in scripture that describes the "crossing" of oneself, I can safely say that it is a behaviour birthed out of religiosity.

Women are to pray with their head covered and the men are to raise their hands to heaven during prayer, if you take things like this as a literal prescription for worship.

Thank you LadyR!

It just seems to be the same old thing, long as I like it its, okay......................but

I think I understand what you are saying.........but not for sure..... a little thick headed today. Can you clarify.

Thanks,

K.D.

[Floatingaxe]

Women are to pray with their head covered and the men are to raise their hands to heaven during prayer, if you take things like this as a literal prescription for worship.

No, I worship like David did, and as he admonishes.

[LadyRaven]

Women are to pray with their head covered and the men are to raise their hands to heaven during prayer, if you take things like this as a literal prescription for worship.

No, I worship like David did, and as he admonishes.

Well this was in the NT, and it does look like a command...

My point is, rather than argue about the legitimacy over something like crossing oneself, perhaps it's better to look at and debate scriptural expressions and leave the other stuff alone. We can't tell someone not to cross themselves, however if it can be proven we can tell them to do other things.

[Floatingaxe]

That's right. I don't tell anyone not to do such things. My own son-in-law, as I mentioned before, does it regularly, as does my dear friend. I do not cast a critical eye on them. They know why I don't do it, and I know why they do! We love and respect each other enough to allow it.

In this forum I have expressed myself a little more freely, but I wouldn't be so forthright with those who I have a serious relationship with. I trust no one has been offended by my remarks. If so, I apologize.

In Jesus,

Nancy

[Kansasdad]

The fact that these forms are becoming issues may be an indication that folks have placed an undue emphasis on them. Worship is supposed to be about God. When we are more worried about what others are doing, or worried about justifying something we are doing, perhaps the focus has shifted from the One who is supposed to be the object of our worship, to the form itself.

Good point. Actually as I was contemplating this question, I was more interested in the actual words of ( in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,) as apposed to the hand motion in the sign of the cross. But I am finding the conversation about the sign of the cross interesting as well. A Baptist friend of mine made a comment that it is important to end our prayers in the name of Jesus. Ok I have no problem with that. The other day during our prayer group another Catholic man (yep there are two of us now) concluded with a prayer and ended the prayer with "in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" I sensed a tension among the group, nothing stated just a sense. Now you know the motivation for the question. Why would those words create tension among a group of Christian men?

God bless,

K.D.

The words themselves should create no tension. It is the baggage that some people associate with them that will cause the tension. It is the same thing with raising hands, or singing modern choruses, or old hymns. All of them can produce negative reactions in people. That is what is so ironic about the whole thing. The very thing that is supposed to get us focusing on God (worship), gets us focusing on ourselves and others. Satan is smarter than we think sometimes

So what do you think are some of the tricks that satan uses that are succesful in getting Christians so hung up that scripture becomes points of division?