kittylover0991 Posted November 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 490 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 2,726 Content Per Day: 0.37 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/06/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/25/1990 Share Posted November 12, 2006 I went to church this morning only leaving to be apologetic to our visitor. Our daughter brought her friend to church. She was a young catholic youth whose family is very active in their faith. The lesson was on the AntiChrist and a few minutes were spent telling us that Catholics weren't saved. Even though I don't disagree with what most of what was said I don't understand why sometimes they just like putting down the other denominations(false or otherwise). Shouldn't there be a focus on bringing others to Christ and proclaiming what the Bible says. Wouldn't it be better to teach false doctrines that get taught, by using the power of the Word to refute those ideas. She was offended and talked about to us how some of what was said about Catholics was wrong. I doubt the church will see this young youth again. That's so sad! Maybe you could talk to your minister and ask him if he could maybe ask the young person to forgive him of such a vague statement. (Judge and yea shall not be judged)! In a way, that can make sense, and in another, it might not. The question comes to as to what the minister woudl be apologizing for? Would he be apologizing for hurting the girl's feelings? Would he be apologizing for that there might be a small number of exceptions to his statement (which she might have been) or for speaking the truth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floatingaxe Posted November 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 9,613 Content Per Day: 1.45 Reputation: 656 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/11/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/31/1952 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Our pastors used to be Catholic, and they mention it from time to time, only in reference to the fact that they were not saved, and had bought into religiosity. That also can offend some people, so I understand where you are coming from. But the message of Jesus is an offense. It's not supposed to be all neat and tidy and fluffy! If God wants this young woman to come to Him, maybe He has used your pastor to awaken her to something in her life that is not right. Maybe she won't ever come back again, but a seed sown is a success. Someone else now will water it. Pray for her! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bethshemaiah Posted November 12, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 150 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/17/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2006 I went to church this morning only leaving to be apologetic to our visitor. Our daughter brought her friend to church. She was a young catholic youth whose family is very active in their faith. The lesson was on the AntiChrist and a few minutes were spent telling us that Catholics weren't saved. Even though I don't disagree with what most of what was said I don't understand why sometimes they just like putting down the other denominations(false or otherwise). Shouldn't there be a focus on bringing others to Christ and proclaiming what the Bible says. Wouldn't it be better to teach false doctrines that get taught, by using the power of the Word to refute those ideas. She was offended and talked about to us how some of what was said about Catholics was wrong. I doubt the church will see this young youth again. I posted earlier that I felt is was wrong to religion bash and I believe that you can state a fact of scripture without slamming anothers religious affiliation. This Pastor made an assumption that this young Catholic girl was not saved. And that no Catholics were. To state that no Catholic is saved is a stretch at best, Jesus can work in the people of the Catholic faith. I was Catholic until five years ago and I personally was not saved. I understand the arguments too, heard them all and studied them I have my own opinions but I cannot make this claim as a statement of fact that all Catholics are not saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted November 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2006 Hello kittylover, Would be interested on your take on scriptures found in Mark 9:33-50 just curious as your view in light of the things you have said. OC Well.. to be perfectly honest, I am not all entirely sure of how to explain those scritpures.... I mean, I believe in taking the Bible literally, but I dont think we should actually cut off our hands or our feet. Maybe he is refering to those things that are keeping us from getting saved possibly? But around the end of that passage, the Lord says that hell is where "the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched"... I would take that and say he is warning folks about spiritual death.... The Lord shows love, but he also warns about danger. I'm not picking on you kittylover. I am one who believes that if a pastor of a church is preaching the word as it is layed down on the pages of God's word line upon line and precept upon precept then it will get the job done as they speak sound "doctrine" and it will save both them and their hearers. But not everything coming from the minister's mouth is sound doctrine but opinions on thier own feelings about things and ministers of all kinds are human and will make mistakes in the things they say and when they do they to have to learn from their mistakes. I brought up the scriptures I did because the scriptures have always stuck out to me in this passage in light of offending others and those who are true disciples and followers of God. Jesus along with his disciples had came to Capernaum and while they was in this house there Jesus asked his disciples what was they disputing or fighting over on their way their (vs33) well they held their peace because on their way to Capernaum they had been fighting over who was going to be the greatest among them (vs 34) of course Jesus already knows what they was fighting about even they have clamed up and aren't saying nothing. So Jesus calls for his twelve disciples and he just tells them if any desires to be first the same shall be last of all and "servant" to "all." (vs 35) A servant to "all" is very thought provoking in and of itself but Jesus after he says this goes over and takes a child and sets the child in the midst of them and then takes the child in his arms and tells his disciples whosoever receives one of such children "in my name" you receive me and whoever receives me receives not me but the Father who sent him (vs 37-38) Then out of nowhere John says, "Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us and we forbad him because he followeth not us (vs 38) Now this verse is a real eye opener as John is saying to Jesus that they had seen a man who was out there doing the work of God and John says but we your disciples took care of the matter and we forbid him to do those things because he wasn't following us. so in other words just because this man was not one of them or their circle they rebuke him and forbid him to be a minister. But Jesus told them to forbid him not don't do that for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name that can lightly speak evil of me then he said that those that are not against us is on our part (vs39-40) Well if I had been that man and the disciples had came to me and forbid me to minister on God's behalf just because I was not one of their group. I think I would have been offended and hurt by it. Because I would think myself to be a child of God though I wan't of their particular group and for the Lord and not against him. So the good that this man had been doing was halted by what the disciples did in ignorance. I think a good lesson is in here regarding those who are not of the faith we have or of the group we are from. It doesn't mean all are not of God because of this and we must be careful that we are not destroying God's children by our rebukes toward them. God does take this serious and says it would be better if you had hung a millstone around your neck and drowned it the sea than to offend the members of His body (vs 42-50) It is sad that so many are being hurt and cut off from Christ body because of uneccesary condemnation they fall under in the midst of the church just because of differences when the whole time they are the true disciples of Jesus as well and are for Him and not against but get labeled as such. We must in my opinion be very careful in this regards so that we don't harm his dear children that He has taken into his arms and into His fold. loving blessings OC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Openly Curious Posted November 12, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 55 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,568 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 770 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/18/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted November 12, 2006 I went to church this morning only leaving to be apologetic to our visitor. Our daughter brought her friend to church. She was a young catholic youth whose family is very active in their faith. The lesson was on the AntiChrist and a few minutes were spent telling us that Catholics weren't saved. Even though I don't disagree with what most of what was said I don't understand why sometimes they just like putting down the other denominations(false or otherwise). Shouldn't there be a focus on bringing others to Christ and proclaiming what the Bible says. Wouldn't it be better to teach false doctrines that get taught, by using the power of the Word to refute those ideas. She was offended and talked about to us how some of what was said about Catholics was wrong. I doubt the church will see this young youth again. I posted earlier that I felt is was wrong to religion bash and I believe that you can state a fact of scripture without slamming anothers religious affiliation. This Pastor made an assumption that this young Catholic girl was not saved. And that no Catholics were. To state that no Catholic is saved is a stretch at best, Jesus can work in the people of the Catholic faith. I was Catholic until five years ago and I personally was not saved. I understand the arguments too, heard them all and studied them I have my own opinions but I cannot make this claim as a statement of fact that all Catholics are not saved. I agree there is a balance a fine line that can be crossed to where it is harmful and can affect the destiny of one's soul. To try to convince a person they are not saved should never be done if one has acknowledged Christ as their personal Saviour. oc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Nolan Posted November 13, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 99 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/05/1947 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I went to church this morning only leaving to be apologetic to our visitor. Our daughter brought her friend to church. She was a young catholic youth whose family is very active in their faith. The lesson was on the AntiChrist and a few minutes were spent telling us that Catholics weren't saved. Even though I don't disagree with what most of what was said I don't understand why sometimes they just like putting down the other denominations(false or otherwise). Shouldn't there be a focus on bringing others to Christ and proclaiming what the Bible says. Wouldn't it be better to teach false doctrines that get taught, by using the power of the Word to refute those ideas. She was offended and talked about to us how some of what was said about Catholics was wrong. I doubt the church will see this young youth again. Maybe it is necessary for people to stop looking at labels, brands, I'm of R.C., I'm of Baptist, I'm of Penecost, aren't we supposed to be of Christ, being likeminded, having love for one another? That's Satan's technique to seperate God's children, not bring them together in Him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalcald Posted November 13, 2006 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 32 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 5,258 Content Per Day: 0.76 Reputation: 42 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/16/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/22/1960 Share Posted November 13, 2006 I think it is okay to speak of differences in belief. We have differences with our Catholic brothers and sisters as we do with the Baptists. But if someone makes a blanket statement that Roman Catholics are not "saved", well they are just ignorant anyway, and it is doubtful that the rest of their sermon had any more meaning or truth to it. It would be good for that Catholic youth to find a Church which followed Christ and maybe God was working in this instance to move her to a different congregation, maybe back to the Catholic Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John R Nolan Posted November 13, 2006 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 99 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/17/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/05/1947 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Church hurt is a terrible thing and Jesus was never into publically humiliating people. The closest that I can recall was him stating to the Hebrew woman that it was "not good for Him to throw bread to the little dogs" as we study this we realize it is a lesson in the faith of the woman that is brought to light in this scripture and He being God already knew the results of His remarks. Bashing other denominations from the pulpit is surely not going to win these visitors to the Lord if they have not received salvation in their own churches. The way to win people to Christ is by loving them. When it becomes about winning people to one's "denomination", shame, shame. I am surely not one for putting others down, but wasn't it Jesus who said unto the Pharisees and Saducees "Oh ye generation of vipers, HYPOCRITES".... They were false teachers and Christ called them out on it.... Why shouldn't a pastor stand up against false teaching? There are many things I would have not learned about otherwise, and as a young Christian, easily swayed when they came my way.... If a pastor is supposed to stand up and call sin "sin", then why can't a pastor stand up and say that a particular religion is preaching false doctrine? Alright, perfect example (again, not meant for debate): tongues. I am completely against the pentacostal/charismatic/ whatever it is that beleives in speaking in tongues. I dont mean for that to be offensive, I have been just told there are major differences.. but you know? My x-boyfriend is pentacostal and I met him about the same time my pastor was preaching on tongues.... and my old boyfriend and I started discussing it... Now I know many on here believe that tongues is for churches today, and I don't. For those who believe, you'd want a pastor saying that to say tongues is not for today, that that pastor is in error. My pastor doesn't talk about denominations normally (actually, I can't recall it), but I know he stands up and talks about cults and how they are teaching false doctrines! If it is acceptable for a "cult", then why isn't it acceptable for any other religion or denomination that teaches false doctrine? Just a thought.... false doctrine is false doctrine.... Spot on Kittylover, GOD does not tolerate fools lightly, He called out Cain, Dathan and Korah and many others through both testaments, because HIS WORD alone is truth He really paid out on the Pharisees and Sadducees, telling them they were of their father, the devil; for teaching doctrines of man rather than the Word of the LORD Today, anyone who in any way questions the authenticity of denominational teachings, doctrines of man, is condemned as an heretic, because all denominations have added to, taken from or personally interpreted Scripture and they don't want the error of their ways exposed to the LIGHT of His Word Heb.13:8, "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today and forever" If the most religious people in the world, the Jews, missed Him when He came, what chance have the gentiles, the grafted in limb, got of recognizing Him when He comes the second time to call ot His children for the catching away of 1 Thes.4:15-16? That's why many people talk 'church' rather than WORD, they are religious to the core, but so were the Rabbis, the High priest, etc., of the Lord's first coming It is a Christians responsibility to point out any Scriptural error, to encourage his brother or sister in the FAITH, not the dogmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darski Posted November 13, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 232 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/15/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/19/1948 Share Posted November 13, 2006 (edited) 1"(A)Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and (B)by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. I do wish people would quote the whole passage when they preach this now Most Famous scripture. If I am willing to be judged based on scripture as I judge your actions based on scripture then I am expected to use the discernment that is a gift of God to determine the soundness of someone's actions or words. Has anyone considered that that child may now be on her way to true salvation? The Catholic church is a cult because they do not teach biblical salvation. They demand you take The Church and oh, yeah, that Jesus thingy too but don't go gettin' uppity because y'all may not get into heaven unless you do enough good works to earn your way there. Maybe this could be the best day's work that pastor has ever done. if you want to pray for that child, pray that she comes to Christ - nothing more; nothing less. You sometimes have to be cruel to be kind and truth is the kindest thing there is when all is said and done. OC, I really don't see the connection between the verses you suggested and saving a child from a cult. What were your thoughts in this regard? (if you don't mind ) Hadn't seen your post on this when I posted sorry... nevermind Edited November 13, 2006 by darski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrp1948 Posted November 13, 2006 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 101 Content Per Day: 0.02 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/21/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/02/1948 Share Posted November 13, 2006 Well without getting into doctrinal issues here which I will not, I will say tha there are only two persons who know if we are saved -the individual and our Savior. Anything else is opinion, judgement and hurtful. This Pastorshould have asked if anyone regardless of doctrine or denomination-was unsure of their relationship with Jesus Christ. While I was also raised a Catholic (at least in my younger years), I too have changed to a non denominational church and am in the ministry. And Bro Leonard is right being ordained does not necessarily give us intelligence or the Christ-like spiritual love that is needed to help draw others to our Blessed Savior. God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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