Man Disrupts Service

[Pizzaguy]

About 10 years ago, "Dick" and "Jane" got married. Both had been married before and each had a child. Soon, they had a baby girl of their very own - "Hannah".

Both were active in my church for at least the past 4 years.

Then, perhaps 4 months ago, "Dick" moved out and moved in with a woman he met thru his work as a Sheriff deputy. He has not been in church since then (well, 'duh'!) "Hannah", 9, has been having a very hard time with what her father is doing, as she has been taught biblical principles and is now seeing her father ignore all she's been taught.

Things have been getting very vindictive, "Dick's" parents even have said/done some stupid things. "Jane" just wants to be left alone - she has given up praying for "Dick" and understands now that he's gone for good. Her request of the church was to pray for his return and repentance. But in the past several weeks, he's hurt her emotionally so badly that she's beyond this - and wants to just move on.

"Dick" has acted so badly, that "Hannah" is afraid of him now, she won't go anywhere with him. I suspect that "Dick" is blind to why she's acting like this and is convinced that "Jane" is manipulating the little girl.

Anyway, yesterday, toward the end of the service and just as the pastor did his "alter call", Dick walked in (I saw him - he had a very strange look on his face - I knew he wasn't there to repent!) As 'luck' (satan?) would have it, the seat just behind "Jane" was empty and he sat there. Once Jane knew he was there, she started crying and went to pieces. As the alter call was made, she went up to pray and about 6-7 women of the church surrounded her. When she went back to sit down, she sat elsewhere - with many ladies around her.

Many people later asked me for a recording of the service, "as I could not pay attention with what was going on". The pastor was caught off guard as well and finished his thoughts (which were very important, it was his next to last message to us!)

The service ended, and I saw "Harry" (a police officer in a nearby county who's wife plays piano for us) talking to Dick. Dick kept 'fingering" to Hannah to come to him, but she was afraid. I left church right away, as I was getting mad, and I saw several men "keeping an eye on things" - so I was confident that the situation was under control.

{I learned later that "Dick" told him that he should not insist that Hannah go with him as long as she's afraid of him. He told him "some other things I thought he better do", but I don't know what they are.}

But I returned to church about 7-9 minutes later, as I thought I should be there. (Like a moron, I did not pray about this, just turned around.) I went back inside to see to it that I'd turned off the sound system, and the only people left in the church were Dick, Jane and Hannah. Jane was crying to him, "why don't you leave me alone? Why were you going thru my ca'rs trunk?" She also said some other things I didn't make out. Dick was very controlled, forceful and rehearsed (he, after all, planned all this). About all I heard him say was, ".. this is my church too, I can be here."

He followed her around the parking lot for 2-3 more minutes and left.

I later learned that "Harry" had told him that he 'needed to leave Hannah alone until she is not afraid of him' and that "I told him some other stuff".

No one else did anything, 'cept watch him torment her in front of everyone.

------

Additional notes:

"Dick" is a deputy in a nearby county.

"Harry" is an officer in another nearby county.

SOMEONE called 911 and a local sheriff car showed up about 10 mins after "Dick" left.

They do not have a divorce yet, so the law is not much help here.

I have spoken to NUMEROUS people in the church and we all were afraid of what he was gonna do.

IN CLOSING:

What I am getting at is his obvious SIN and disruption to a chruch service. HE ONLY CAME THERE TO INTIMIDATE his wife/little girl into getting Hannah to go with him when she's afriad of him.

I was sickened that no one confronted him - and said so, but everyone THOUGHT I said to "punch him out"!

Not at all - I thought we should deal with this in a "New Testament way" but everyone else said, "there's nothing we can do." I thought that we should have confronted him and made it clear that we won't allow him to drag his personal sin (and it's consequences) into our church. I also think that "Jane" and "Hannah" should AT LEAST have a sanctuary in our church away from this man.

I am proud of the women of our church for literally rallying around her - but I am disappointed in the men of my church and I said so. (I apologized for saying so, but still think I am right - but we need no more ill feelings in the church.)

MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL:

Should we (the men and pastor of the church) have simply stood by, only willing to intervene if it got physical?

Is there no New Teastament way to respond to this guy in?

I will check back as often as possible, please respond with your thoughts, questions, comments, etc.

Ok......

1) Did the men of my church do enough?

2) How should the church deal with such a disruption?

3) Should we have made it clear to him to NOT come in and disrupt a service like that?

I know he'll be back, because (I think) he got what he wanted.

How would YOU handle such a situation?

Any thoughts or questions are welcome.

Edited November 14, 2006 by Pizzaguy

[Smalcald]

Tough situation but here is my two cents.

1) Inform him he is not welcome.

2) Inform him if he returns you will call the police and report an incident of domestic violence/harassment.

3) Inform him you do not need nor will you wait for permission from his wife to make these calls or reports; you will automatically do it the next time he shows up. You don't need to wait for any further incidents. Churches are private they are not a public place, if you deem you don't want someone on your private property for ANY reason you can call the police for trespassing, but even more so if they have committed a crime by menacing or stalking behavior.

Everything you have described shows a person who is using fear and intimidation to control a women and child; this is classic domestic violence and shows the mind of an abuser. Keep him away it is a dangerous situation. He probably does not feer physical threats by the men of the congregation what he fears is jail so keep the focus on that.

[Candi770]

This is foreign to you guys, how could you know what to do. But now you can plan. Maybe this mans employer should be contacted (someone high up)(Maybe Harry could help???) This incident should be recorded, should he decide to do this again; this lady may being stocked.

I don't know if she should be encouraged by church to put a restraining order on him and that way-and have his superiors told that he is not allowed on church property. Then if he shows up the police can be called asap.

These are only suggestions, other than that, I have no idea.

Let us know how it goes, other churches could benefit from the knowledge.

[Pizzaguy]

MAN! Lotta good stuff in both of those posts!

[Candi770]

Tough situation but here is my two cents.

1) Inform him he is not welcome.

2) Inform him if he returns you will call the police and report an incident of domestic violence/harassment.

3) Inform him you do not need nor will you wait for permission from his wife to make these calls or reports; you will automatically do it the next time he shows up. You don't need to wait for any further incidents. Churches are private they are not a public place, if you deem you don't want someone on your private property for ANY reason you can call the police for trespassing, but even more so if they have committed a crime by menacing or stalking behavior.

Everything you have described shows a person who is using fear and intimidation to control a women and child; this is classic domestic violence and shows the mind of an abuser. Keep him away it is a dangerous situation. He probably does not feer physical threats by the men of the congregation what he fears is jail so keep the focus on that.

THis sounds right. Then if it got worse then call superiors??

[darski]

Pastor Brothers believes that there comes a time when you have to pray that God will stop someone in his tracks and maybe this is a time that you should pray that that is what happens. Flat in bed or in a wheelchair can get your attention and limit the evil that you can do.

This man is not going to listen to anything God speaks to his heart. If he could desecrate a church with his vile agenda then you need to go to the next level.

continue to pray for his repenting but Give God a free hand otherwise.

Edited November 14, 2006 by darski

[Floatingaxe]

Very good responses. Wolves are not allowed in sheepfolds.

[Pizzaguy]

What a cool bunch of people here! I'll keep you all updated - but the updates may be DAYS apart.

[Guest Biblicist]

I am glad to hear that the women of the church put a hedge around "Jane" However, they should have stayed with her till he left.

This man should never have been aloud to enter the sanctuary. Whomever was outside the doors should have escorted him out of the building, talking to him as long as possible if necessary.

If no one was outside the doors and he got in, the men of the church should have quietly approached him sitting behind "Jane" and removed him.

"Jane" should never be left alone with him. If he looked that threatening, he was a threat. The numerous things that could have happened in that parking lot are to frightening to list.

File a report with the police, so that next time he shows up and 9-1-1 is called they will hurry. The more police reports there are on this guy, the easier it would be to get a restraining order on him for her and the church. Anyone using scare tactics on a woman and her child needs to be stopped. And the fact that he chose the sanctity of the Worship Service to do it is appalling.

Please forgive me if anyone else gave this same advise. I just read what happened and had to reply. YIKES. Poor "Jane"

[Pizzaguy]

I am glad to hear that the women of the church put a hedge around "Jane" However, they should have stayed with her till he left.

This man should never have been aloud to enter the sanctuary.

"Jane" should never be left alone with him. If he looked that threatening, he was a threat. The numerous things that could have happened in that parking lot are to frightening to list.

File a report with the police, so that next time he shows up and 9-1-1 is called they will hurry. The more police reports there are on this guy, the easier it would be to get a restraining order on him for her and the church. Anyone using scare tactics on a woman and her child needs to be stopped. And the fact that he chose the sanctity of the Worship Service to do it is appalling.

Agreed on all counts. And I was pretty upset over what I put in bold above, as well.

I think we, as a church, responded poorly, and I see many here agree.

I ALSO predict that this is gonna get worse: he's gonna be back (unless what "Harry" - the policeman who was there with his wife - told him was effective. I have no idea what was said.)